Elaine
04-22-2008, 05:59 AM
Thought I should take a moment here to explain why we are super cautious about selling abroad, it goes to our ability to trust people.
By way of background, like many American breeders, we are contacted from time to time by breeders from around the world. Unfortunately, we have had negative experiences with trusting people, and our experiences taint our feelings about future interactions.
Our experiences started with a series of phone calls from a guy in Puerto Rico, Mr. Jose Polanco. Looking back, Polanco was all flattery and fawning. His line of baloney had been perfected over time, presumably from his contacts with Jim White (who must have found Polanco credible, White sold Polanco a nice bitch - Cambria’s Sebring, and I suspect that it was White who sponsored Polanco to memberhip in the DPCA), and Suzanne Smith (who at one point was considering breeding one of her males to Polanco’s Cambria bitch).
Fast forward, we took a leap of faith and trusted Polanco... and it was a disaster. In hind sight he reminds me of a Chimpanzee that was owned by a pet shop where I worked as a child. This chimpanzee would hold its hand out limply... reaching through bars... cajoling someone to come close enough to touch it. If you got close enough the Chimpanzee would violently grab at the human hand, pulling it into the cage, at the same time lurching forward to savagely bite.
We trusted Polanco and bent over backwards to accommodate him. Trust became a huge issue for us. Things with Polanco were never what he promised, never what they should have been, never what he said they would be. Trying to pin him down about the truth was like trying to capture a greased pig in a paddock of manure. We gave up on him. Eventually we got an angry email from a Mr. Rock Vali – who represented himself as a veterinarian living in the Northeast. Mr. Vali had approached us months earlier about purchasing a dog, our impression at that time was that Mr. Vali was a dog dealer. We do not sell to dealers or through third parties. My understanding is that doing so is a violation of the DPCA Code of Ethics and the AKC Rules and Regs. Mr.Vali was furious with Mr. Polanco for selling two pet Tungsten - Cambria's Sebring puppies as show quality. Apparently, Mr. Vali (and his associates / clients) had found Polanco's hype credible.
At one point on his Divine Dobermans website Mr. Polanco boasted that one of his Tungsten - Cambria Sebring puppies - Rich - would finish from the puppy class. Who but a hack amateur would make such a claim? Very few Dobemans finish from the puppy classes. It is laughable that Mr. Polanco would make such a claim when he had never finished an AKC champion. He did not own an AKC champion; he had never produced an AKC champion; and he had never shown a dog to its AKC championship. His bitch Cambria’s Sebring is NOT an AKC champion. Mr. Polanco had never put a point on a dog at an AKC show in the continental United States. He has shown in Puerto Rico, in FCI shows and in AKC competition that is marginal at best, with a point schedule that is one of the lowest of any AKC region.
Based upon what we know now, we believe that this third party – Mr. Rock Vali - was involved in this sale of Rich and a bitch littermate named Piper to India - that at least one of these puppies went to a Michael Lui- that the puppies were sold as top show prospects (when Rich was actually undershot and Piper was a pet). We were told that Mr. Lui and/or Mr. Vali were very unhappy with the quality of what they had purchased. Mr. Vali threatened to sue Mr. Polanco. At that point Vali contacted us. Our impression is that Polanco saw dollar signs and a way to dump puppies to naive individuals with little concern for any individual animal. In my opinion, Mr. Polanco represents the lowest form of breeder I can think of.
Apparently Polanco had been able to convince Vali and his client Mr. Michael Liu that he had two show quality Tungsten puppies out of Cambria's Sebring. We hear that at one point Polanco was offering them at $16,000.00 for the bitch -Piper - and as I recall $8,000.00 for the male - Rich. We had told Mr. Polanco that these puppies were pets and should be placed in loving pet homes. Under no circumstance was it appropriate to advertise them as show quality puppies.
Even more on point, Mr. Liu had a track record that was of concern to us. It is our understanding that prior to the sale to India, Mr. Polanco had been warned about the treatment of another bitch (a Trotyl daughter) sent to Mr. Liu. We had seen photos of what happened to this Trotyl daughter whom Mr. Liu had in his possession for a time. We were very concerned about the matter. I have attached the photos of this other bitch. One is from before she went to India, the others are of what she looked like when she returned from the care provided by Michael Liu. It is my understanding that these photos were sent to Mr. Polanco and he was warned about Mr. Liu prior to letting his puppies go to India.
We had no control over Polanco once we signed the AKC paperwork. Polanco had moved on, he was the Big Man now, back with Mr. White, and/or making the rounds of handlers and breeders in the area. Polanco didn’t want to hear what we had to say. He asked if he could re-breed his Cambria bitch to our Titan, I said “hell f#ckin no.” and he moved on.
The Polanco / Lui / Vali matter confirmed for us our worst fears about certain people attracted to dogs. For some people dogs are a commodity. These people will approach you in a fawning, submissive manner, and cajole you into believing what you want to believe about them. I think that with each successive relationship they are more sophisticated in their approach... indicating that they are capable of learning and refining their schmarmy facade... but all they are is a facade. You will find that over time there is no substance, no follow through and absolutely no reason to trust. In fact, they will piss on your trust. But people like Polanco and his friends should be identified by their conduct, not by their geographic location. Polanco lived in Puerto Rico, then in Florida, then in North Carolina, then back in Florida... and supposedly his wife is still in Cary North Carolina. One need not live abroad to be a "Polanco."
Upon reflection we realize that it is not fair to paint an entire country like India with one broad sweeping brush. It is indeed possible that standard of care varies tremendously from owner to owner. We do not want to characterize all who live abroad in one lump. While we are furious with what happened with the Polanco -Tungsten breeding, there is no value in building a wall to hide from the world. Rather, there may be tremendous value in building bridges.
At the very least, some of you here who run breed rescues can speak to us all about the complexities and commitment involved.
By way of background, like many American breeders, we are contacted from time to time by breeders from around the world. Unfortunately, we have had negative experiences with trusting people, and our experiences taint our feelings about future interactions.
Our experiences started with a series of phone calls from a guy in Puerto Rico, Mr. Jose Polanco. Looking back, Polanco was all flattery and fawning. His line of baloney had been perfected over time, presumably from his contacts with Jim White (who must have found Polanco credible, White sold Polanco a nice bitch - Cambria’s Sebring, and I suspect that it was White who sponsored Polanco to memberhip in the DPCA), and Suzanne Smith (who at one point was considering breeding one of her males to Polanco’s Cambria bitch).
Fast forward, we took a leap of faith and trusted Polanco... and it was a disaster. In hind sight he reminds me of a Chimpanzee that was owned by a pet shop where I worked as a child. This chimpanzee would hold its hand out limply... reaching through bars... cajoling someone to come close enough to touch it. If you got close enough the Chimpanzee would violently grab at the human hand, pulling it into the cage, at the same time lurching forward to savagely bite.
We trusted Polanco and bent over backwards to accommodate him. Trust became a huge issue for us. Things with Polanco were never what he promised, never what they should have been, never what he said they would be. Trying to pin him down about the truth was like trying to capture a greased pig in a paddock of manure. We gave up on him. Eventually we got an angry email from a Mr. Rock Vali – who represented himself as a veterinarian living in the Northeast. Mr. Vali had approached us months earlier about purchasing a dog, our impression at that time was that Mr. Vali was a dog dealer. We do not sell to dealers or through third parties. My understanding is that doing so is a violation of the DPCA Code of Ethics and the AKC Rules and Regs. Mr.Vali was furious with Mr. Polanco for selling two pet Tungsten - Cambria's Sebring puppies as show quality. Apparently, Mr. Vali (and his associates / clients) had found Polanco's hype credible.
At one point on his Divine Dobermans website Mr. Polanco boasted that one of his Tungsten - Cambria Sebring puppies - Rich - would finish from the puppy class. Who but a hack amateur would make such a claim? Very few Dobemans finish from the puppy classes. It is laughable that Mr. Polanco would make such a claim when he had never finished an AKC champion. He did not own an AKC champion; he had never produced an AKC champion; and he had never shown a dog to its AKC championship. His bitch Cambria’s Sebring is NOT an AKC champion. Mr. Polanco had never put a point on a dog at an AKC show in the continental United States. He has shown in Puerto Rico, in FCI shows and in AKC competition that is marginal at best, with a point schedule that is one of the lowest of any AKC region.
Based upon what we know now, we believe that this third party – Mr. Rock Vali - was involved in this sale of Rich and a bitch littermate named Piper to India - that at least one of these puppies went to a Michael Lui- that the puppies were sold as top show prospects (when Rich was actually undershot and Piper was a pet). We were told that Mr. Lui and/or Mr. Vali were very unhappy with the quality of what they had purchased. Mr. Vali threatened to sue Mr. Polanco. At that point Vali contacted us. Our impression is that Polanco saw dollar signs and a way to dump puppies to naive individuals with little concern for any individual animal. In my opinion, Mr. Polanco represents the lowest form of breeder I can think of.
Apparently Polanco had been able to convince Vali and his client Mr. Michael Liu that he had two show quality Tungsten puppies out of Cambria's Sebring. We hear that at one point Polanco was offering them at $16,000.00 for the bitch -Piper - and as I recall $8,000.00 for the male - Rich. We had told Mr. Polanco that these puppies were pets and should be placed in loving pet homes. Under no circumstance was it appropriate to advertise them as show quality puppies.
Even more on point, Mr. Liu had a track record that was of concern to us. It is our understanding that prior to the sale to India, Mr. Polanco had been warned about the treatment of another bitch (a Trotyl daughter) sent to Mr. Liu. We had seen photos of what happened to this Trotyl daughter whom Mr. Liu had in his possession for a time. We were very concerned about the matter. I have attached the photos of this other bitch. One is from before she went to India, the others are of what she looked like when she returned from the care provided by Michael Liu. It is my understanding that these photos were sent to Mr. Polanco and he was warned about Mr. Liu prior to letting his puppies go to India.
We had no control over Polanco once we signed the AKC paperwork. Polanco had moved on, he was the Big Man now, back with Mr. White, and/or making the rounds of handlers and breeders in the area. Polanco didn’t want to hear what we had to say. He asked if he could re-breed his Cambria bitch to our Titan, I said “hell f#ckin no.” and he moved on.
The Polanco / Lui / Vali matter confirmed for us our worst fears about certain people attracted to dogs. For some people dogs are a commodity. These people will approach you in a fawning, submissive manner, and cajole you into believing what you want to believe about them. I think that with each successive relationship they are more sophisticated in their approach... indicating that they are capable of learning and refining their schmarmy facade... but all they are is a facade. You will find that over time there is no substance, no follow through and absolutely no reason to trust. In fact, they will piss on your trust. But people like Polanco and his friends should be identified by their conduct, not by their geographic location. Polanco lived in Puerto Rico, then in Florida, then in North Carolina, then back in Florida... and supposedly his wife is still in Cary North Carolina. One need not live abroad to be a "Polanco."
Upon reflection we realize that it is not fair to paint an entire country like India with one broad sweeping brush. It is indeed possible that standard of care varies tremendously from owner to owner. We do not want to characterize all who live abroad in one lump. While we are furious with what happened with the Polanco -Tungsten breeding, there is no value in building a wall to hide from the world. Rather, there may be tremendous value in building bridges.
At the very least, some of you here who run breed rescues can speak to us all about the complexities and commitment involved.