Brutus, my doberman

[Akshay_Bondre]

Just some fun pics.. :)

http://akkyy21.googlepages.com/IMG_0081.JPG

http://akkyy21.googlepages.com/Image0343640x480.jpg

http://akkyy21.googlepages.com/25122009406.jpg

[Athy]

Love the second pic - he looks like he's laughing :)

Athy

[Elaine]

Welcome to DSNN Akshay, and thank you for the photos. :)

Could you tell us a bit about yourself, about your interest in Dobermans, and specifically, about the dog in the photo with you. As Athy observed, he seems like a happy fellow.

[Akshay_Bondre]

Hey all,

I am Akshay Bondre from India, Pune. I am a software developer by profession but take keen interest in dogs too.

The dog in the picture is Brutus who is brought up from a small bundle of joy 3 years ago to a drop dead handsome looking dog today. I started taking interest in the shows about 2 years ago. Showed this guy twice with very little success, but we both have a ball at the shows, so what the heck! He is the reason why I started reading about doberman's and started following good breeders and their breeding outside India. Wanted to get another dog for showing, but don't have the heart to part away with this fellow, so will continue learning about the breed until I somehow figure out how to manage 2 dogs at once :D

[doberdogsfd]

Welcome Akshay!
Handsome boy you have there and very nice photos!

Cheryl and Bob

[Dr.ROBY.ALEX.GEORGE]

welcome n nice to see u here on dsnn....brutus s improved a lot and looking very good...

[Akshay_Bondre]

@ Athy :
Thanks, by the time we got around clickin some pics, he grew very impatient and wanted to just dive into the lake.. hence the expression, I suppose :)
Went to the websites in your signature.. The mbdpc seems cool! Its awesome that you guys have local groups for Doberman's where newbies can mingle along with the pro's and get to learn a lot, wish we had clubs like that in India, the development of breed would have been much faster that way over here.

@ doberdogsfd :
Thanks! I have been to your website before and visited it again right now. You guys have wonderful dogs! Vaako is kick ass!
One question though.. you guys use handlers to handle your own dogs in the show ring. Why is it so? Isn't it more fun to handle your dogs on your own? Just curious, because most of the big kennels hire handlers.. am I missing out on something?

@ Dr.ROBY.ALEX.GEORGE :
Hello, nice to see you here too :D
Thanks for comments on Brutus, your inputs have always been very informative and helpful.

[doberdogsfd]

Hey there Akshay!

Thanks for your kind words about our dogs!
"Kick ass" pretty much describes the big guy for sure! :)
Vaako is just a great dog all around, beautiful, a loving a good dad, our sweet and affectionate friend and when need be a fierce protector of his home and family. What more can we ask for!

Regarding your handler question. I am sure some others will jump onto that one also and give you their reasons why they use a handler.
Here are ours.

I have been in the dog sports since I was 14 yrs old. I have a background in obedience, bite work and behavior modification. A handler, I am not! LOL!

From the start I have always used a proffesional handler to show my dogs. Luca and Flex both started with Carol Knock-Collins back in the 80's-90's. Flex was finished by Gwen DeMilta.
Here in this country, it is one of the most difficult rings to finish a dog or even point a dog from as an Owner/Handler.
It also isn't a ring for the thin skinned and timid!

It can be done, there are some wonderful O/Hs out there. Some of them have had pretty darn good dogs and it has taken them a long time to finish them due to being O/H'ed, simply due to the political climate.
Some have been very successful. Linda Krukar is a prime example of a successful Breeder/Owner/Handler. Linda bred and owns Emma's half brother, Agador.

For me, even if I was able to handle my dog to the level of one of the Pro's, I wouldn't step into this ring. I am far to competative and feel I would not give my dogs a level playing field without having a Diego, Jessy, Michelle, Gwen, Kelly or Pete on them.
Our puppy owners are expected to use a proffesional also.

This is what these people do for a living. If I needed an attorney, I would go to one....I want to finish a Doberman in this country..... I go to a Pro.

Our goal at Blackwood is to produce correct, sound and beautiful Dobermans. If they go in the ring, our goal is to finish them. I have a lot of fun doing that!!:)

Now my friend, you and I just opened up a can of worms! LOL!
It is a very sensative topic. It is the ring and if you are in Dobes and want to win, you deal with it.



Thanks again!
Cheryl

[Elaine]

Re: Why people use professional handlers?
Short answer: They want to win, and to win, they need to present the best possible picture to the judge.

You basically have 3 minutes in the ring to impress a judge. You have to show the dog… the judge does not find you, and he/she has no responsibility to fix your handling mistakes. If you show a bad picture to the judge, you will not win, even if you have a very good dog.

If you have Dancing with the Stars in India, take a good look at it. With training, the amateurs get to be rather good, but they are not nearly as good as the pro’s. Most of us are rather good at stacking our dogs… and if we were showing a less competitive breed, we’d probably be rather successful on our own. Showing in conformation in some breeds is relatively easy. You simply need to have the dog standing four-square with his/her nose pointed forward. In many breeds it is not critical to have a professional handler, owners can and do finish their dogs with relative ease. Often these breed have low point schedules, where 4 dogs makes a 3 pt major. In other breeds, like Dobermans, Goldens, German Sheppards, Shelties etc, it takes more dogs to make a major, and it is much more competitive.

In Dobermans, the picture you want to make for the judge is pretty much what you see when your dog alerts on something (i.e., when the dog is alert, tense and up over his/her front. A miss-placed foot, not using the ears, not tensing the top line… not getting the dog over his front… all would negatively impact the picture you make for the judge. A skilled professional handler can hold a dog's attention in the ring, accentuate the positives, minimize the negatives and make each dog look its very best, which is why professional handlers can win with lesser quality dogs. The pros simply get the very best out of each dog they show. When the judge has to make a choice, in a ring full of good dogs, it is often the subtle nuances that a professional handler brings to the moment that make the difference between winning and loosing.

[andyhilt27]

The greater the challenge, the greater the reward.

[doberdogsfd]

I rest my case Betty! ;)

Sorry folks.....carry on, inside joke!


Cheryl

[andyhilt27]

:rolleyes:

[Akshay_Bondre]

@ Cheryl :
Thanks for taking time to answer my question. I think its the way how different people would look at a particular thing in their own ways. For me, (although I have not even started to rear good one's ).. rearing dogs and showing them would always remain as a hobby, something that I and my dogs can be both proud of. I would like to learn and educate myself as I move ahead with every dog.

But I can understand your perspective and I can imagine how much you love our dogs to do the best to make them achieve success in shows :)

Every time I look at Vaako, the more I find him like Trotyll! Again, awesome dog, congrats!

@ Elaine :
Nice, thanks for your informative post. I actually never knew the dog should be trained to put all his weight ahead on forelegs when stacked the american style. I thought it is pertaining to european style only. Cool, will try some stuff out on Brutus :)


Another question, do you have some sort of training programs for handlers in US, where one could go and learn? Are they full time courses?
I would come to US next year, and probably try to get some handling course done (If there is any) too along with my mainstream degree course.

[andyhilt27]

Akshay, when you come to the U.S. you should check with a local kennel club for handling classes. Also there are seminars, check with AKC.org for more on these.

[doberdogsfd]

Oh believe me Akshay, we do not pay our bills by breeding. This litter is the first and we will selectly put litters on the ground in the future. Our dogs are all in the house and not in a kennel set up.
I have been in Dobermans for almost 20 yrs and waited until the time, money and situation was right to breed a litter.
Bob and I have careers that pay the dog show bills! LOL!

You are absolutely correct, we love our dogs very much. One of the reasons we want our dogs presented in the best possible light. To do anything less would do them an injustice.

I play to win....at everything I do.
Dog showing is not the exception to that.
I also level the playing field with a handler that can play at a high level.

I truly admire and respect someone that wants to get in the ring with the Pros and show their dog. I think if that is what one wants to do...rock on.
But I also believe that when one looses to the Pros, do not complain. Go in understanding one isn't playing on the same level.

Best way to get started handling here is to apprentice with one of the handlers. Some take on an apprentice on a regular basis.
Several handlers that I know got started doing it that way. Jessy Sutton was Gwen's apprentice when she was showing Flex, he was also the #1 JR handler in the country at the time, Michelle Scott also apprenticed with Gwen, I do believe.
Learning from someone like Diego Garcia or Gwen DeMilta is a privelage. Both are masters of their craft.

A handling class will teach you to stack a dog. A true proffesional teaches you the Art of the Game.

Cheryl

[Elaine]

@ Elaine :
... I actually never knew the dog should be trained to put all his weight ahead on forelegs when stacked the american style. I thought it is pertaining to european style only.


The dog should not put “all of his weight on his forehand.” That would be wrong. The dog must be up and over his/her front, with a firm topline… and yet still carry weight in the rear. For most dogs, handlers use bait to get the dog up and over, but some dogs are so structurally correct and “showy” that they could be shown with an empty hand and make a great picture. Obviously a well muscled back and strong loin make it much easier for a dog to stand with a firm topline. You will often see handlers, especially the SA handlers, pinching and tugging at the underline of a long-backed dog with a soft topline… trying to get the dog to appear to have a stronger more level topline. I absolutely abhor showing a dog that way. If your dog needs his/her underline to be constantly pinched and tugged, go back and breed a more correct dog.

[Elaine]

I truly admire and respect someone that wants to get in the ring with the Pros and show their dog. I think if that is what one wants to do...rock on.
But I also believe that when one looses to the Pros, do not complain. Go in understanding one isn't playing on the same level.


I think we all agree with this. Winning from Bred-by or going Breeder/owner handled BIS is the ultimate… no question. And I have no problem going in the ring… but I also have no expectation of winning when I do. Still, in certain situations, I think it's fun. I put a Gr III on a Giant once, years ago. I would love to see a class with Bob, Cheryl, me, Betty and Arthur… it would be a hoot. But we’d probably all be excused.
:p

[doberdogsfd]

I told Eve to get me a Mini Bull, I will try it from that ring! I will let her do the big stuff and I will play around with the little stuff!
I think it would be a flat out party!!:D

Cheryl

[Akshay_Bondre]

Alright! To each his own I guess.

I'll always prefer owners in the ring with their own dogs, but that does not necessarily mean not doing so is something wrong, just not my way, at least yet :p

In India too, most dog owners hire handlers to handle the dogs, but at times its a pity to watch them.. guess its because of the professionalism and the demand in the US that makes the handlers strive to learn more and pursue it with a passionate zeal.

Thanks for the responses.

[Minka]

Hi Akshay welcome - most of the so called professionals in India would not be let within a 100 feet of a 'show dog 'in the US :p
Rs 1,000 per dog / per ring was what they were charging, when they couldn't stack a dog for nuts.
Take a look at the westminster/eukanuba doberman breedring videos or I's sure there are pictures and a like to video of the last nationals- spiffy stuff to watch them in action

[Akshay_Bondre]

@ Minka :
Yes, I agree on your comment about the handlers here. But improvements are being seen, especially with the owner handlers who watch / read on the net and learn if nothing else.

I have seen the videos of Westminster, its fun to see how easy some of them make it look like :)