donna

[windance]

http://www.dobeschina.com/uploadpic/201002282059262481.jpg

http://www.dobeschina.com/uploadpic/201002282059277481.jpg

http://www.dobeschina.com/uploadpic/201002282101004521.jpg

[Elaine]

Lovely bitch. It’s nice to see flexion at the stifle and hock in the movement shot… but does she appear to be moving down hill to you? Any thoughts about that? How old is Donna in these photos? And what is her pedigree?

[windance]

donna's gait is sometimes carried hind legs kick high, but not always been this way. Is gait problems can be seen from the structure of her? How?
She is currently 10 months old, photo were taken in 6 months.

http://www.dobeschina.com/uploadpic/201003012008306701.jpg

http://www.dobeschina.com/uploadpic/201002282059304521.jpg

http://www.dobeschina.com/uploadpic/201002282059230451.jpg

http://www.dobeschina.com/uploadpic/201002282059320301.jpg

http://www.dobeschina.com/uploadpic/201002282059312481.jpg

[Elaine]

I think the movement is simply that of a young angulated bitch, who may be going a bit too fast.

To better understand Donna, and the influences in her pedigree, I am going to put the DobeQuest links to some of the dogs in her pedigree. Having seen these photos, and having looked at DobeQuest, I am now very curious to see the dogs in the pedigree of Sonny's Purple Max. Btw, just a stray point, but Carlon is with an "n." I think you may have it as an "m."

Here is some data on Ch Foxfire's Ain't in D'Nial http://www.dobequest.org/profile.php?DOGID=17353 He is doubled up on Rayden. Go to the link, click on siblings and progeny... this pedigree (top and bottom) has produced many very nice dogs.

We see Cambria's Rita on the Rocks in the pedigree on top and on the bottom. Rita is by Ch. Cambria's Cactus Cash out of Ch Cambria's Vision v Carlon. Rita is not on Dobequest, but if she was whelped on August 4, 2000, her littermate Am/Can Ch Cambria's Caracas of Kettle Cove WAC CGC (a.k.a. Skylar) is, with a photo. http://www.dobequest.org/profile.php?DOGID=1453.

Skylar is a nice looking square Dobe. I like things about her and her pedigree. I am guessing that Ann White sold Rita over seas... which might explain how Rita was bred to Sonny's Purple Max to produce Donna's sire's dam, Hanna of Sonny's Kennel ](and people complain about our names :p;) just a joke)

According to this pedigree, Rita was also bred to a dog Sam Grant bred named Ch Kaywood's Tactical Maneuver. http://www.dobequest.org/profile.php?DOGID=21397. I am just guessing here, but this breeding may have taken place before Rita was sold overseas... maybe she was sold in whelp. Dobequest does not list any progeny or siblings for this dog, but there is a pedigree and photo. The dog has Eddie top and bottom... and a bit of Thunder.

Interestingly there is a tie in here to both Reigny and our Diarado through the bitch Ch Cambria's Vision v Carlon
http://www.dobequest.org/profile.php?DOGID=7165 Bred in 2001 to Ch Derby Dobes Sunrise Careveille, Ch Cambria's Vision v Carlon produced Cambria's Cardiac Arrest, who is the dam of Reigny (a.k.a.Ch. Cambria's Secret Desire) and Cambria's Sebring (who is Claire's dam, and Claire is Logres' Diarado's dam)

[windance]

Thanks elaine! For your detailed information and advice.

I am sorry that the information here, there is something mistake. "Cambria''s rita on the rock" is the wrong point. From what I know. Uki's mother called "friski", apparently. Rita is not friski ..... I will as soon as possible to identify clearly. Who is friski?:confused:

Pedigree certification in China just over three years. Information incomplete and error. Reflect the bloodline research difficulties. This is also the reason why my dog can not go to USA to participate in competitions recently.It is a long road to go.

Thank you again!

[windance]

I think now it is correct. Btw.friski and the max is a littermate. They are eddie offspring.:D

http://www.dobeschina.com/uploadpic/201003020855045301.jpg

[windance]

Noting donna's pedigree, her parents are named not from breeding kennel, but in the registered kennel name, because of China's pedigree certification organization established in a short time, the previous breeder did not provide official documents, so , donna's parents can only be officially certified as the first generation of China.

http://www.dobeschina.com/uploadpic/201002282100577481.jpg
PBIS

[Elaine]

Congrats on the Puppy BIS. Can't wait to see Donna in the years to come. She certaily has a lot of the Cambria influence, who knows, there may be a time when we all have to go to you to get those bloodlines :)

As an aside, this thread highlights the importance of a studbook (something we take for granted here with the AKC pedigrees). How is the CKC compiling their data? Does the CKC have a program to download AKC pedigrees? Does AKC sell access to the studbook? How does that work?

[windance]

In China there are only two kennel club was recognized by AKC or FCI,
NGKC with the AKC has a global service cooperation program, but for now, NGKC pedigree does not seem to be accepted; CKU is FCI fully recognized. So all my dogs are registered in the CKU.

The establishment of these two kennel club's studbook data, first of all is to accept the AKC or FCI pedigre the conversion, if not provided an official document, you can only use on-site identification and microchip implanted in a way, but only as the first generation on record.

http://www.dobeschina.com/uploadpic/201002282100529831.jpg
PBIS3

[Minka]

Basically what your telling us is that Cambria sold this dog into China with no papers at all?

[windance]

Basically what your telling us is that Cambria sold this dog into China with no papers at all?

I do not know Cumbria sell dogs, including paper or not. I do not have contact with Cambria. There is a basic situation like this: if China's breeder has not continued to AKC registration, so that future generations will not have access to AKC certified.
Unfortunately, I purchased all of the dog in China, there is no akc paper. The only good news is that they have become China's first generation.

sorry! Because the web server relocation, photos can not see yet. Perhaps tomorrow ..... who knows?

[Elaine]

Hmm? I have no comment one way or the other on what Cambria/the Whites may or may not have done. Other than Jim’s hysterical rant over the phone back at the DPCA National in 2002 that Arthur and I “ didn’t pay enough for her [Liz], and we [Ann and Jim] aren’t giving her back” and a ringside confrontation that ol’ Jimbo tried to start ringside in 2007 at the Roanoke show (when Warkant was a puppy), our only other interaction with them was back in 2002 (at the time we purchased Lizabeth, a.k.a. Cambria’s Irish Rose). Back then things went well. We got Liz's AKC papers from them immediately, and promptly sent them in to AKC. Arthur and I were Liz’s sole registered owners, there were no co-owners, not even the Whites. AKC papers were not a problem for us with the Whites, though clearly other things were.

In this instance, who ever sold the dog to China probably sent the AKC papers... that transfer of ownership should have been recorded with the AKC... and when the dog was later re-sold, the transfer should - again - have been recorded with AKC.

I realize the AKC’s value is grounded in the stud book, and they may not wish to share their data base… unless or until they reach some agreement with another registry (based upon whatever criteria the AKC may have for credibility and accuracy), but if the dog is an AKC registered dog, then every dog in that dog’s pedigree (including siblings and even future offspring) should be available in the form of a certified pedigree. It seems to me that access to a breed stud book should be available.

In general, if a breeder/owner sells a dog with no papers there is a reason. In fact, there are probably a zillion and one reasons for selling a dog with no papers, and if you throw in selling the dog over seas, there are probably a zillion and three reasons.

One reason a breeder /owner would sell a dog with no papers is that they do not want the dog bred. The right to control if and when a bitch is bred is usually retained by the breeder. Buyers sometimes agree to terms, and then later forget what they agreed to. IF you’re a breeder who’s been around a while, for whatever reason, you may begin to loose faith in people’s ability to abide by what they agreed to, and in that case you may not send the AKC papers. As an aside, my understanding of the rules is that the papers belong with the dog, and should be sent, regardless of the agreements made, and the mere fact that one person is in physical possession of the AKC papers does not in any manner negate an agreement.

[doberdogsfd]

There are so many shades of gray in these deals, it borders upon the absurd.
Anybody see that turnip truck roll by.......

Put the stuff in contracts folks. If it is simply so no one forgets their commitments or what was agreed to.

On a side note and speaking of absurd. Would any of you name your dog, "Cardiac Arrest"? What's next..."Cambria's Stroke Victim" ?

Bad Karma in my opinion.


Cheryl

[Elaine]

On a side note and speaking of absurd. Would any of you name your dog, "Cardiac Arrest"? What's next..."Cambria's Stroke Victim" ?

Bad Karma in my opinion.


Cheryl

They must have thought it was funny.. it makes me cringe a bit every time I see it, but to each his own. :cool:

If I were in a foreign country, importing AKC registered dogs, I think I'd keep the AKC registrations… and dual register the dogs with my country’s fledgling registry and the AKC, so that I would have the best of both worlds... and the option of sending AKC registered dogs back to the USA.

[doberdogsfd]

I agree about the dual registrations.


CB

[windance]

Dual registration, means that you have to pay twice the registration fee. At the same time sell a puppy may be able to return to the United States. For the past China's breeders, the answer is negative. Because of reasons like this, resulting in three generations of the database generated even more faults. This is distressing.

I do not blame the mistakes of the past. Just let you know, China's Doberman Pinscher has its own process of development with the difficult situation. But we never give up.:D:D


雙重註冊,意味著你必須付出兩次的註冊費.同時賣出去的小狗可能可以回到美國.對過去的中國的繁殖者而言, 答案都是否定.因為像這樣的理由,造成血統資料庫產生三代甚至多的斷層.這是令人痛心的.

我無意責備過去的錯誤.只是讓各位了解,中國的杜賓犬有其發展的過程跟困難處境.但是我們不曾 放棄.

[Elaine]

It seems you all have a few challenges ahead of you. The accuracy of your studbook is absolutely key to the integrity of your registry. Fortunately you have both determination and some good models for how to maintain a pedigree data base.

This must be an exciting time, to be in at the ground level of the creation of a kennel club. :)

[windance]

It seems you all have a few challenges ahead of you. The accuracy of your studbook is absolutely key to the integrity of your registry. Fortunately you have both determination and some good models for how to maintain a pedigree data base.

This must be an exciting time, to be in at the ground level of the creation of a kennel club. :)


Oh, yes! Stairway to heaven, highway to hell.
So I think I am more like it in the ground below the 100 level, down the elevator, up the stairs ...... one day when I climbed out on the ground, you must be my angel, my homemade kennel club's honorary advisors.:D:D