Spayed female with issues

[pretty dobe]

I have an interesting issue going on with my 6 year old spayed female and I was wondering if anyone has had the same problem. She has had what we thought was urinary infections quite a lot over the years but it didn't always show up in her tests. It showed something off and she was always put on antibiotics and she would be good for months. In the last year my full male is after her periodically and she doesn't object. So, the red flags pop up that maybe there is something left from when they spayed her. She swells also at these times. She doesn't swell as much as a full female but swells none the less. We are going to run a specific test next week to see if anything shows up. They will inject something that will bring her in if there is ovary tissue present. I then will have to decide if I want them to remove what tissue is left. She just went through a session of this and it was worse then ever before. It was very hard on the red boy and I was happy to send him with his handler to get him out of the house.

Judie

[Elaine]

I have never hear of this kind of thing... no advice ... just wanted to ask that you PLEASE keep us updated.

[andyhilt27]

Interesting. My work on the hog farm leads me to believe that there is indeed some hormone producing tissue left in there. We had to be exact in the castration of the piglets. Any tissue left in there would have caused the male to "think" he was still intact. In terms of spaying what is involved? The ovaries,tubes, and uterus are removed correct?

[pretty dobe]

Andy, she had everything supposedly removed at an early age. Which I would never do again either. She always has had something not quite right but since my full male has grown up, it has become an issue. I hate to see her bugged all the time and him bothered. We are going Tues and get the shot and I'll find out more on it from the vet. This is something fairly new I guess and my vet wants to make sure it is safe and I agree with him. We want to eliminate this avenue before we look elsewhere since everything points to it. He said it doesn't have to be much of a piece of ovary to cause it and since most people have their dogs spayed or neutered it wouldn't be a problem to them.

[andyhilt27]

I hope it is an easy and not so painful fix. I just thought I would offer my thoughts. I hope it helps. Keep us posted.

[pretty dobe]

Yep, that is the next thing I'll have to think about...Do I put her through a surgery at her age. Must say I'm thinking no unless there is a good reason. Maybe we could regulate her in other ways. She goes at 9 am our time and I'll know more about the procedure then.

Thanks for thinking of her. She is a sweetheart.

[andyhilt27]

"Andy, she had everything supposedly removed at an early age. Which I would never do again either."

do you mean you wouldn't go through a second "spay"? Or are you saying she was spayed too young? I have had 5 dogs in my life. So I have no experience in terms of spaying a bitch. One male as boy growing up, Joy who my wife had prior to us meeting, that one bitch, Tabitha, and Eva. So no, I have no experience. Is the proper age 6 months and beyond? I have heard there is a more of a risk for cancer the longer you wait. Any thoughts on that? Sounds like a good thread. Good luck

[pretty dobe]

Andy, I would not spay early again. I would wait until the dogs had their growth and then decide. My vet at the time talked me into it and I went along with it. I've learned soooooo much in 6 years. Seeing my male develop and grow into a sturdy male and looking at the males that were neutered early, believe me there is no comparison. My buddy just lost her neutered male with bone cancer at the age of 5. Her vet told her there is growing opinion that early neutering and the bone cancer are being proven. She has lost two males early to it.

Now would I put Anya through exploratory surgery to find the pieces that are left???? I'll decide when we know more.

We decided to hold off on the test since she is no longer swollen. We will wait for her to go through this again and then do it. She has been running about every 4 to 5 months with these sessions and they last 3 weeks at a time.

[Ann Lanier]

My vet encouraged early spay. She is very well read, exceptionally knowledgeable and a Doberman person. There is evidence that bitches spayed prior to the first heat have a greatly reduced chance of mammary cancer.

It doesn't help much if you may breed, but for quality pets......
a

[andyhilt27]

Thanks Ann!!

[pretty dobe]

Ann you have been at this a lot longer then I. I can only tell what I have seen personally. I have two dobe vets, one older and the other a younger fellow. Older fellow trained him and I respect both. I've always spayed my females early since I've had no intentions of breeding them. The only dobe I didn't spay early, she was 9 months old, and she was not leggy. Would have done it early but she was older when I got her. With all this spay and neutering bills that are being thrown at us, there is a lot more information out there on what is going on with our dogs. Through this information and seeing what my girls have developed into, it has answered a lot of things that I've seen in them. Same thing with my friend that had males from the same breeder but different sire and dams. The littermates that were not neutered early were not leggy nor did any of the litter have bone cancer. Could be just the luck of the draw I'm sure but interesting non the less. It would be interesting to see if others have had similar experiences. Hope someone is out there with more information on the subject.

[andyhilt27]

I smell a debate! I must say I welcome it so long as everything is cordial and respectful. I'll be the referee! :) This could ineed be a milestone for DSNN. What took so long???? I am unfortunately ignorant on the subject at hand. I also foresee me getting kicked off of here for inciting a riot. :cool:

[pretty dobe]

Oh No Andy....Ann is a very knowledgeable lady...Lots of good folks out there are. I don't know her personally but know about her and would never not listen to her or others. I can only comment on what I see or what I have dealt with. I've had dobes since the early 80's but I'm new to conformation and have 6 years in obedience with dobes. Seeing who has joined this list, there is a lot to learn and these folks have lots of information to share. Knowing some of these folks, they share willingly and I listen and hopefully learn.

[Arthur]

I agree with Ann and Pretty Dobe.

By spaying early we dramatically lower the level of endogenous estrogen. Any woman going through menopause will testify to that.:rolleyes: Certain forms of breast cancer in women are estrogen receptor positive. Studies have identified an increase incidence of breast cancer with estrogen replacement after menopause. Doctors have changed their stance and no longer encourage hormone replacement therapy in women with a family history of breast cancer.

At the end of puberty, high levels of estrogen or testosterone cause the remaining epiphyseal plate cartilage to undergo hypertrophy. These cartilage cells grow, die, and are replaced by bone. Without any further cartilage formation, growth of these bones ceases, a process known as growth plate closure. By spaying and neutering this natural process can be delayed.

Many horse breeders will tell you that their geldings grow taller than the colts they keep intact.

[andyhilt27]

Ann, pretty dobe, and Arthur, thanks for your input! Are there views to the contrary though. I will google it and see what I can dig up. For now I have very interesting thread to begin!