Ch Logres’ Titanium – Logres Butterfly Flip - whelped 3-31-2010

[Elaine]

Here is a photo of Logres Argentinus at 9 weeks. The photo was taken yesterday… we took the stitches out and posted all the puppies in the litter. R-gen is from a litter of seven, he is the only red boy. In the litter there is also: a black boy, two red girls and three black girls.

Dobequest info on the litter is here. http://www.dobequest.org/profile.php?DOGID=44516

Three of the girls are sold. R-gen is available on a co-ownership and so are a few others. I will try to post photos of all of them later today.

When we did the Titan - Flip breeding we were looking to produce more forechest and a better underline, while retaining the best of what is clearly the best foundation pedigree in Dobermans, which includes beautiful head, great flow of neck into shoulders, a beautiful top-line, tail set and croup, strong loin connection and great movement. We achieved that with R-gen.

If you know me you know that I have always said Titan is one of the best moving dogs I have ever seen. I am not saying “best moving Doberman.” He is one of the best moving dog of any breed. As we all know, people all mean different things when they speak of movement. Many are stuck on something as simple as a “clean down and back”… which is one aspect of good movement, but not nearly enough to define a dog as “a good mover.” I am looking for a dog that carries a firm level top-line, and moves with an arched neck in an upright position, while the mechanics propelling him forward move smoothly and efficiently beneath him. A good moving dog must have balanced reach and DRIVE (which means flexion at the stifle and the hock), he must come an go cleanly (with no twisting or weakness at any joint), but most of all, he must have self carriage that marks him as exceptional. He must be able to maintain that self carriage moving freely on a loose lead (not held artificially by a handler). Very few dogs have it all in one package. Titan does, it makes him extraordinary and it is his gift to his puppies.


http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Argentinus-9-wks.jpg

[Elaine]

Here are photos of the puppies from a few weeks ago.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Logres-Lourdess-5-13-10.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/5-14-10-Blck-puppylmnop.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/5-14-10-Blck-puppyl.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/5-14-10-Blck-puppyabcdf-1.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/5-14-10-Blck-puppyabcdfg.jpg

[Elaine]

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/5-14-10-Blck-puppylmno.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/5-14-10-Blck-puppyabcde.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/5-13-2010abcdex.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/5-14-10-Blck-puppylm.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/5-14-10-Blck-puppyabcd.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/5-14-10-Blck-puppyh.jpg

[Athy]

Elaine, that is a beautiful litter - good bone, nice heads and I can see lots of personality too.

Athy

[Elaine]

Thanks. You and Grandpa Aaron will always hold a special place in their lives. :)

[Athy]

Well, Grandpa Aaron thoroughly enjoyed seeing those photos this morning and he's looking forward to more :)

Athy

[doberdogsfd]

Great photos of the puppies! Love their little faces!

Thanks for sharing!
Cheryl and Bob

[Minka]

E! did you get any pictures of the Black boy ?

[Elaine]

No, and here’s why… I was up at 5:00 am, got up to the house in Winston Salem by about 11:00am. Arthur was on call, so he was continually having to drop what we were doing to go back and forth to the hospital. He did an embryo transfer and may even have delivered a baby for all I know. :rolleyes: By the time we finally got all the stitches out and fed the kids it was getting very late… and the light was bad. And, the kids were too pooped to care about being photographed… they all wanted to go to sleep. :( So we only really got the photo of R-gen :)

SO I got up at the crack of dawn this morning thinking that if the weather was good, and the lighting was good, I could get a friend to pop over and take a few shots. I mean really, how hard could that be? :)

Turns out it was near impossible. :(

One friend had the farrier over and could not get away, another had her trainer coming over and could not get away, another was volunteering at the hospital and could only come after 1:00pm. A fourth was doing god-knows-what. It was getting later and hotter… the opportunity was slipping away, so I called John, our tree guy. He and his wife were willing to drop what they were doing and pop over. :rolleyes:

Here’s a photo of John and his wife. They don’t do a lot of dog photography. :rolleyes:

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/John-and-Pam.jpg

If you photograph dogs you know that there is such a thing as "the right height and the right angle." Pam’s approach is more of, “I’ll sit here and if the dog happens to be in the frame, fine.”

I realy don't know what we got, but we took photos.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Pam-on-6-7-2010.jpg

[Elaine]

Haven’t gotten to the puppies yet, but here are some we took of Diarado… he is 6 months old. We were playing with him while we tried to figure out where the light was best.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Diarado-at-6-mthsxxx.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Diarado-at-6-mthsxx.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Diarado-at-6-mthsxxxx.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Diarado-at-6-mthsx.jpg

[Elaine]

And here's one of DiMaggio. Boy, I'm glad we were able to capture this moment in time... :(:p

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Dimaggio.jpg

Or this of Hotline, with neither her ears or her tail up :rolleyes::rolleyes::o

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Hotline-next3.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Hotline-next4.jpg

[Elaine]

And what the heck is this? :p

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Hotline-next2.jpg

or this

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Hotline-next.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Hotline.jpg

I don't think I can take looking at any more of these, I'm going to go take a nap...:cool::(:rolleyes:;):p

[Athy]

So you and I apparently went to the same handling classes! :p

Athy

[Elaine]

Apparently so. :p

Edited to add, I was just looking in my old files for a photo of DeNiro for Lili to paint, and noticed that Diarado reminds me a bit of DeNiro at this age…

[Lili]

At least you look 100% better than I did at handling class. I concentrate so hard those two lines between my eyes make me look mad all the time. A judge would think I wanted to beat them up. And the dog just laughs.

Still waiting for that picture to paint.

Lili:rolleyes:

[Elaine]

I'll get right on it... I just got in from mowing the stallion's paddock... in the dark :eek: ... tomorrow I'll be able to see what all I hit. :p

[Minka]

Diarado should get steak after that performance -his siblings should be sent to their rooms

[Sheila]

Dang looks like the kind of handling I can do at my best<G> I figured out years back I was not going to make it as a handler<G>

Sheila

[Elaine]

I took all of the puppies ears down this morning.. they all stand, which is sort of cute. Here are a few photos of Logres' Celine. I will try to get more photos of the other puppies later this evening.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/puppies-6-10-2010-xx.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/puppies-6-10-2010-xxx.jpg

[Athy]

Hmmmm, she looks like she has a lot to say to the world :) Very pretty puppy and the ears look smashing!

[Elaine]

Dang looks like the kind of handling I can do at my best<G> I figured out years back I was not going to make it as a handler<G>

Sheila

Just found these of Hotline, taken the same day as the ones in post #11 above. I think the real question we have to ask here is, "What the heck is up with the hairdo. :D

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Hotline-on-6-7-2010XiX.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Hotline-on-6-7-2010XiXx.jpg

[Elaine]

Hmmmm, she looks like she has a lot to say to the world :) Very pretty puppy and the ears look smashing! Thanks... but Puck has a whole lot more to say... he will lay on his back on the hammock and howl. Ask Lili:)

[Elaine]

At the beginning of this thread I wrote a bit about my expectations from the breeding of Titan to Flip… and I mentioned that Titan is one of the best moving dogs I have ever seen, not simply because of his strong, balanced, reach and drive, but because of his superb self-carriage. Here is a photo of his daughter Celine at 10 weeks. I have never seen a puppy at this age move as well or carry themselves so beautifully.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Puppy-6-10-2010.jpg

[Lili]

What a well put together puppy. Congratulations on such a nice litter. she is beautiful. I love candid shots. You really get an honest look much more so than a set up shot. This is a very nice puppy.

Lili

[Elaine]

Thanks Lili. I love how she flexes at the stifle and hock… while coming well under herself… while holding a firm level topline, but most of all I love how she carries herself with that lovely arch to her neck.

I abhor dogs that have to be strung up to give the appearance of moving well. They are an aberration.

People sometimes speak of a good moving dog that “moves freely and correctly on a loose lead.” Celine is moving beautifully on “no lead at all.” :);)

[Elaine]

Took these last week, and forgot to post them.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Titans-girls.jpg

The light was wrong, it washes out the color and the puppes were just too hot to bait, so we did not get great shots of the girls... but here is a baseline.

We are very pleased with what we see here at this age. The quality and consistency are amazing!!! What we wanted from this breeding was to retain the top-lines, tail-sets and strong coupling that exemplified Kafka and the best of the America pedigree… while adding a bit of the shoulder assembly we got from mixing in the SA blood a generation back. We have accomplished that with every puppy. Also, the heads and expressions are absolutely beautiful, with excellent head planes, strong underjaws and clean backskulls. This is easily one of the best litters we have ever bred. :)

[Elaine]

I always said that if Logres’ Contucci (a.k.a. Titus) had a bit more forechest we’d never have parted with him. There is so much about the dog that I love. Frankly, had he been a bitch we’d never have parted with him.

Here is a comparison of Logres’ Contucci and Logres’ Argentinus at about the same age. Argentinus, (a.k.a. Argen) is exactly the improvement over Contucci that we dreamed of. We are thrilled with this young dog. If we had no other males we’d absolutely never part with him, but as it is, he needs a very special home of his on, so he is going on a co-ownership to Lili.

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Contucci--Argen-comparison.jpg

[doberdogsfd]

He is really a beautiful guy!
Enjoying the photos !!

Cheryl

[Lili]

Thanks Cheryl, he really is a pretty puppy. I can't wait to get my hands on him. He has a special place in my heart to fill and I am so happy Elaine is letting me have him. I am very happy to co-own another dog with her. She is worth her weight in gold to me. Here's hoping we can have some fun showing these guys.

[Elaine]

Thanks Cheryl. We are proud of this litter... it represents the steps forward we envisioned years ago, which is to say, we have a better front assembly, while retaining a square, well-angulated, balanced dog - with beautiful top-lines, great coupling, a strong loin, excellent croup and terrific tail set. And the heads are beautiful. So, for now all is good. :)

Here is a comparison of Contucci and Lourdess. I believe Lourdess is going to a show home in Tennesee. and I think Abe is getting Adisa, which leaves us keeping Matiné (or co-owning her) and Celine is available (on a co-ownership).

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Contucci--Lourdess-comparis.jpg

[doberdogsfd]

I am sure Abe is just too excited for words. His long search for his special puppy girl is over.

Bob and I are thrilled for him!!


Cheryl

[Elaine]

I think he will be pleased… we are actually open to either Matiné or Adisa for him.. but I think Adisa is more of what he is looking for. Btw, have you seen the photo of his niece Leah.. she is a little doll. :)

[doberdogsfd]

I am sure which ever girl will make him happy...:)

Nope...send them, love to see her!

Cheryl

[Elaine]

It's on its way. :)

[Elaine]

It's been said that getting photos of this Titan - Flip litter from us is about like pulling teeth from a chicken... or some such rarity... and I agree. :p;) But I often want to respond, "If you think this is so easy... you go breed a litter, raise them, crop them, dock them and get photos of them, stacked, with good lighting, etc... and manage all of that around 95+ degree heat :o and the daily drama of "life on this frickin farm" :eek:... which includes things like blowing the engine on the mower :eek: and locking my keys in the truck, while it's running, in the grocery store parking lot. :o

Here are some photos we took recently... we completely forgot to get photos of Celine... and honestly, I am simply too annoyed to deal with more photos at the moment, so this is what we have. :( And, we have Puck back, and that is a story too annoying to tell (but breeders who've sold to familes with young kids may understand.)


http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Logres-Matine-6-25-10g.jpg

Argen's body... with me in the way:o:confused::(
http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Argen-6-25-2010.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Addie-6-25-10xx.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Addie-6-25-10xiX-1.jpg


Puck, a.k.a T-h-e Sweetest Boy
http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Puck-6-25-2010x.jpg

[doberdogsfd]

Lovely! The little girls are quite spiffy!

Listen...you are preaching to the choir on the photo shoot deal! Remember those days well and actually...still having them! They don't want to play, the heat, the rain, the guy with the camera is not playing nice.....you name it! Pain in the behind!

Poor Puck! Placing with families with kids is hard and risky. Actually it is usaully a massive headache!
I avoid children wholesale....personally and when placing the puppies. :eek:


Cheryl

[Elaine]

Placing with families with kids is hard and risky. Actually it is usaully a massive headache!
I avoid children wholesale....personally and when placing the puppies. :eek:
Cheryl

I know of three Dobermans puppies – none of who are related (and at least one of whom was raised with a very young child), who all had problems in homes with young children. From what I’ve seen, a significant part of the problem is the perception that puppies are merely a commodity you purchase, like a video game or a soccer ball… i.e., a “thing” that is expected to be perfect from the moment it hits the ground. The puppy is paraded around to friends and family the way one shows off a new car until the novelty wears off and they realize the puppy needs love consistency and structure appropriate for his/her age. At that point the novelty has worn off, they realize that owning a dog is work and their interest fades. At the heart of the problem is that there is no genuine love, care or even awareness of the puppy’s needs at all… and of course the puppy feels totally overwhelmed. Couple that with no awareness about the structure and guidance a puppy needs, and you have a recipe for disaster. In Puck’s case, we noticed in the very first communication that there was absolutely no emotional connection to him at all. Even in the photos, he seems alone, on his own, there is no human in the photo with him.

Usually when we palce a dog the first communication begins and ends with “I l-o-v-e this puppy/dog.” Sure, there will be an adjustment period, but love and the emotional connection are always first and foremost with loving dog owners. The communication about Puck was dry… not a mention of any emotion for him at all.

My impression was that he was a thing. My first impulse was to get him back the following morning, but if I had actually acted on that impulse I would always have wondered if I truly gave them a chance to step up as owners, after all, there is an adjustment period for a puppy.

Even fantastic homes like Glenn and Kelly have had issues… but their love and commitment is genuine and they work through problems. THe bottom line is that you either have a connection to the puppy or you don’t; you either step up and address the issues or you don’t.

In the end we gave Puck’s people 4 days… and things did not change. Puck was a commodity from the first to the end. We were lucky to get him back safe and healthy. I know of other dogs that have come back sick and disheartened.

[doberdogsfd]

You are lucky to have gotten him back none the worse for wear!

That is a darn shame about the home. Like I said...I have rarely heard of a good situation with kids unless they are true dog people and the family is "in dogs" that is a whole different ball game. Main stream pet homes...not so much!
I know other breeders that do the same thing...avoid them.

The " object " syndrome can happen with a singles or couples...but I find it more common when their are human off spring in the home. I have been called to work with many a family that have done nothing but stuff the puppy in a crate or the laundry room and wonder why they are acting out and having negative behaviors.
Never good.

Glad the little guy is back with you, happy and safe!


BTW...is it Puck as in "Wolfgang" or as in " Hockey" ? JW.....

Cheryl

[Minka]

I'll be very happy with which ever girl E! picks

[doberdogsfd]

Ok...Robyn ( Hannah's mom) just emailed me... the Puck from Shakespeare.....right?
Very cool if so!!

CB

[Elaine]

Yep! It's from a Midsummer Night's Dream, but his registered name still has to be that of an FEI quality Warmblood Sporthorse Stallion. :)

[Sheila]

In this disposable society some people extend that thought to a puppy too. Have it while, get tired of it, get rid of it. Wonder why rescues get so many???

Fortunately Puck is no worse for his experience. Darling looking little man. I'm sure the RIGHT home will present itself and he will be where he is treasured.

Sheila

[Elaine]

Here are stacked photos of Puck. I can't abide his top-line and croup. Puck is a sweet sweet young man, and we love him dearly, but he is not a show dog. Still, I thought you all might like to see him. :)

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Puck-6-26-10c.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Puck-6-26-10.jpg

[Elaine]

Some photos we took on Saturday of Lourdess (with the green lead) and Celine (the purple lead). This was the girl's first trip to town.

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Lourdess-and-Celine-7-3-201.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Lourdess-Celine-7-3-201cc.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Lourdess-xx7-3-201.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/IMG_0334-at-600.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/me-and-Land-C-7-3--2010.jpg

[doberdogsfd]

Very pretty and the photo with you is adorable!
Looks like they enjoyed their road trip to town!

Cheryl

BWT...Nice hair! Looks really nice shorter.

[Athy]

OMG, they are GORGEOUS!!!!!!! Their ears are absolutely beautiful! Beautiful girls, Elaine!

Athy

[Minka]

They look adorable & they have mischief written all over - the ears were well worth the effort - to everybody that pulled off that Operation;) ''- Bloody splendid job :p:D

[Sheila]

They are lovely! Can see Wei's look to their eyes.

Sheila

[Sheila]

Nice pic with you and I LOVE the one of the girls side by side sitting.

Sheila

[Lili]

Great photos. Love seeing them and the one of you getting smoochies is delightful. how bout I paint that one?

[Elaine]

Lili,

I'd love anything you want to paint. You do absolutely beautiful work. :)

Here are a few more photos, in the one, I could swear that Lourdess is smiling. :)

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Celine-Lourdess-7-3-10x.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Celine-Lourdess-7-3-10.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Celine-Lourdess-7-3-10xXX.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Celine-Lourdess-7-3-10-at-1.jpg

[Elaine]

They are lovely! Can see Wei's look to their eyes.

Sheila

Sheila,
Don't they remind you a bit of Wei and Wah... I am looking for those photos we took of the girls sitting side by side... give me a minute or two...

Okay... here is the photo I was thinking of. Looking at the two sets of photos, I see more of Trotyl in Wei and Wah… and more of Kafka in Lourdess and Celine.

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/Wei-and-Wah.jpg

[Elaine]

The other day Matiné and Lourdess met for a playdate at Lili’s house. Lili and Argen were great hosts and everyone had lots of fun. :) The kids played a bit, then went for a walk around he neighborhood... and then just sat in the shade to snooze. What with scheduling and drive times we managed to hit the hottest part of the day. Here are some photos…



http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/7-29-10--LAand-kids26.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/7-29-10--LAand-kids25.jpg

[Elaine]

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/7-29-10--LAand-kidsXXXX.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/7-29-10--LAand-kidsXXcxv.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/7-29-10--LAand-kidsjjjvv.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/7-29-10--LAand-kidsjjj.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/7-29-10--LAand-kidsbb.jpg

[Elaine]

... Matiné did not make it to the end of the walk


http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/7-29-10--LAand-kidsaaaaa.jpg

and nap time for Argen


http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/7-29-10--LAand-kidsXX.jpg

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/7-29-10--LAand-kidsX2.jpg

[Athy]

Such nice looking little babies, Elaine! I'm trying to convince Capricia not to grow up too much but it's not working. I look at these photos and wonder: where did my puppy go? Time truly flies :)

Athy

[Sheila]

Athy I was thinking the same thing. Can't believe size of Fleming and it seems such a short while ago he was the puppies' size. I find them just so endearing when they are that age. Everything is new and interesting and they have to investigate it all!

Sheila