The Sept 2nd -6th Raleigh, NC Cluster

[Elaine]

IF you have a chance, check out the shows in Raleigh, NC this weekend. Five of the top ten dogs - All Breed - in the country are entered, including the Pekinese, GCH Palacegarden Malachy, the Irish Setter, GCH Shadagee Caught Red Handed the Boxer, GCH Winfall Brookwood Styled Dream, the Cocker, GCH CH Casablanca’s Thrilling Seduction and the Whippet, GCH Starline’s Chanel. It's well worth spenidng a day at the show, even if you don't have a dog entered. :)

Here's the catalog for today 9-2-2010 http://www.infodog.com/results/2010636502/2010636502map.htm

BIS went to the Bulldog bitch, CH KEPLEY'S SHOWBIZ RAZZLE DAZZLE Owned by Joan L Fisher & Robert D Speiser & Barbara Wolfe., New York, NY and bred by Marjorie D Kepley & Jack Kepley.

The BIS lineup was the Cocker, the Boxer, the Peek mentioned above, the Whippet CH SPORTING FIELD'S BAHAMA SANDS, owned by Jane Cooney-Waterhouse & Dionne Butt, and bred by Dionne Butt & Jesse Martin; and the Skye Terrier - Ch. CRAGSMOOR BUDDY GOODMAN, owned by Carolyn Koch & Victor Malzoni Jr. and bred by Dog News very own Gene Zaphiris & Matt Stander, shown by Larry Cornelius. Rounding out the BIS lineup was the GSD, GCH CH SHOAL CREEK'S SANGRIA V BARICK, a bitch owned by Edward Farrell & Barbara Stamper & Lee Jewel & G Middei, bred by Giovanni Middei and shown by Scott Yergin.

[Elaine]

Alamance Kennel Club, Inc. - Friday 09/03/10
DOBERMAN PINSCHERS
JUDGE: Mr. Robert H. Slay


CH ALISATON THE FLIGHT OF THE PHOENIX won the breed today, Friday September 3, 2010. This lovely boy is by Ch Cha-Rish Star Quest Blu-J'S out of Ch Gemstone Ravenna Alisaton, owned by Madeleine & Pistol Tingen & G Demilta. Breeder: Carissa DeMilta & Gwen Demilta & S Heffner and shown by Carissa DeMilta Shimpeno.

Phillmar had a very good today today too.
WB / BOS is New Ch. PHILLMAR MY ONE & ONLY DOB MANN, by Ch Phillmar X-Static CD out of Ch Phillmar Cavurella Dob Mann, owned by Cheryl Green & Phillip Martin. Breeder: E Bivin & C Green & P Martin. Congrats all around... this lovely champion makes number 32 for Phillmar.

Better still, their beautiful young boy Cooper, a.k.a. PHILLMAR BRING IT ON V SIMCA was WD again today (he was WD BW yesterday. He is about to single out. Cooper is by Ch Phillmar X-Static CD out of Ch Phillmar Monsterella, owned by L & S Sniderman-Berg & C Green & P Martin and bred by P Martin & C Green & L & S Sniderman-Berg. He was handled by Carissa Schimpeno. Congrats to all... and here's hoping that Cheryl is feeling better. Those close to her know she's been through hell and back recently... with the big C. It's good to see her out and about at shows again. :)

[Elaine]

The Pekinese GCH Palacegarden Malachy went BIS today... September 3, 2010. THe BIS line up included, the Irish Setter, GCH Shadagee Caught Red Handed; the Boxer, GCH Winfall Brookwood Styled Dream; the Skye Terrier, Ch. CRAGSMOOR BUDDY GOODMAN; the Bulldog CH KEPLEY'S SHOWBIZ RAZZLE DAZZLE and

[Elaine]

The Pekinese GCH Palacegarden Malachy went BIS again Durham KC show, on Saturday, 9-4-2010 under Joan Zelinski. This time the BIS line up included: the Black Cocker CH CASABLANCA'S THRILLING SEDUCTION, the Whippet CH SPORTING FIELD'S BAHAMA SANDS; the Portuguese Water Dog, GCH AVIATORS LUCK BE A LADY (the Boxer got a GrII, the Dobe who's won the Breed for the last three days on this circuit has not yet gotten a piece of the Group); the Lakeland HI-KEL TERRYDALE TOKENYO (who is a class dog, go Maripi Wooldridge & Jennifer Stevens!!!! :); the Standard Poodle bitch CH VETSET KATE WINSIT and the GSD GCH CH SHOAL CREEK'S SANGRIA V BARICK.

Here's a link to the show catalog http://www.infodog.com/results/2010016108/2010016108MAP.HTM


I watched Dobermans with some friends who are new to dog shows, they are very group the AKC is concerned we impress positively (e.g. “Conduct Prejudicial to the Sport” is often defined in terms of how said conduct would impress people attending their first dog show). I can’t say that they had an reason to be positively impressed, there is a palpable malaise ringside… which simply can not be encouraging to newcomers.

About the judging, as is so often the case around here, the judge was a provisional, this may have been his first Doberman assignment. There was not much of an entry, lots of absentees, one of the top local specials (who’s owner was ringside), did not even bother to enter. I understand why clubs use Provisional judges, but the flipside is that showing is very expensive these days and I think we all enjoy showing to experienced judges. The Field Rep was ringside observing, that may be intimidating, but it comes with the territory for Provisional judges, best I can say is that I would guess that this judge was written up for his ring procedure. Hopefully that aspect of his judging will improve with time.

[doberdogsfd]

What was it that would cause this judge to have been written up?


I think we all need to wrap our head around the fact that most of our
"experienced" judges are leaving us for retirement or Crossing Over.

It makes sense that there is a new crop of judges coming up. I am sure some of these old paragons of virtue and judging ability were once in the newbies spot.

Just kind of curious as to how the procedure went and what the issue was.

We have all been ringside when handlers have pretty much used their supposed "Star Power" to intimadate a judge.

Again...since perception is reality, what was your perception of the issue?

Cheryl

[Elaine]

What was it that would cause this judge to have been written up?

Just kind of curious as to how the procedure went and what the issue was.

Again...since perception is reality, what was your perception of the issue?

Cheryl

The error in ring procedure wasn’t even remotely a question of “Elaine’s perception.” The judge chose his Reserve WB without calling back into the ring the bitch that went second to his Winner’s Bitch in the original class of competition. He was marking his book when someone pointed this out. The Winners class was out of the ring at that point, they all had to be called back in … it was not a good moment for the judge… especially with the Field Rep observing. Early on in a judge's career the Field Reps are focused on ring procedure, and this mistake was a matter of failing Judging 101.




I think we all need to wrap our head around the fact that most of our
"experienced" judges are leaving us for retirement or Crossing Over.


Cheryl

I disagree. There are many experienced judges who are still active and young… it would be nice to see more of them on the panels. There are exceptions, but in general, unless it's a breed judge who’s program I’ve admire for years, (e.g., if Michelle Santana got her license), I’d really rather skip the first few assignments of a judge who’s original breed is something markedly different from my own. For example, I am not running to a Bulldog judge who does two breeds and just got approved for Dobes. I’d much rather wait a few years. Same with showing to a breeder judge in my own breed who’s breeding program reflects that they never ever understood, structure, movement or Breed type.




We have all been ringside when handlers have pretty much used their supposed "Star Power" to intimadate a judge.

Cheryl

The thing about this assessment is that it is always a third partiy's perception of the motivation of a judge… and that can be totally off the wall, and completely wrong. Take the booing incident up in MA with Jackson back in July. If people actually spoke to the judge involved (which I had occasion to do last Tuesday), they would know that she absolutely truly loved the dog. While some ringside got all spooled up that it was “a set up” (and it did look odd because Jackson was only entered on the one day), the simple truth is that the judge absolutely loved him. Now, we may not agree with her choice, but questioning why she made the choice is pure speculation at best, and in this instance was utterly and completely wrong.

[doberdogsfd]

That was what I was interested in, what you actually saw.
Since I was not there I was interested in what the issue actually was....a bit of a slip in procedure, I do agree. Whatever...no points were lost to it.

I could give a rat's ass about what I have now come to call " The Mass Incident". Others seem to.
I disagree with booing in general...it is tacky and rude. The issue is also very old news. JMO.

The judge in question is also provisional and I did have the chance to see her judge on another occasion, and have noted what she places in general.
There are other reasons not to show to her. Being provisional isn't one of them.
I didn't realize she was from your area. I am sure she appreciated your support.

Experience is super and I will agree there are some very good judges not being used.

As with any person mistakes get made, regardless of experience.
Not everyone is going to agree with who gets put up and wins...it is the nature of the beast.

Cheryl

[Elaine]

The judge in question is also provisional

I didn't realize she was from your area.

Cheryl

She isn't from my area... she and her husband (who is also a judge) live up in CT, she's been judging for years and years, does most all of the Working Group and Herding and can judge Best In Show... has a wealth of experience in the sport and specifically in evaluating dogs. We'd show to her again in a heartbeat, after all, our goal is to appeal to Group and BIS judges. She is not remotely in the same league as the guy yesterday, who has something like two breeds and maybe four provisionals (it will be years before he can judge a Group or BIS). But, just to be sure we're clear here, we wish the very best to the guy yesterday... it's not the worst thing in the world to make a mistake, though at the time, he must have felt like crawling into a hole.

[doberdogsfd]

Never thought you were saying anything negative about the guy...just to be clear.

As for Mrs Daugherty, you are right she has been judging for years, but is Provisional for Dobermans, Great Swiss, Porties, Leonbergers, and a couple others.

CB

[Rauschund]

Never thought you were saying anything negative about the guy...just to be clear.

As for Mrs Daugherty, you are right she has been judging for years...many breeds but is Provisional for Dobermans, Great Swiss, Porties, Leonbergers, and a couple others.

CB

Mrs Daugherty is the judge that was boo'd when choosing the breed in W Springfield in July........alot of folks are boycotting her because of her actions.

[Elaine]

Mrs Daugherty is the judge that was boo'd when choosing the breed in W Springfield in July........alot of folks are boycotting her because of her actions.

We heard that a certain person with a long standing grudge against Tony Dinardo and a few others thought that Tony's dog Jackson did not deserve to win the breed from the classes, and they booed. They should have been benched, that is without question Conduct Prejudicial to the Sport. We do not have "judging by mob rule." If they want to judge dogs, get a license and get in the ring. IF they truly had a legitimate claim against the judge, they could take it the Field Rep. Booing is the epitome of bad sportsmanship.

Here’s more of the background we've heard: supposedly Jackson was only entered on the one day of a five day circuit (which I agree looks odd, but we all have the right to not show to certain judges. Rather than this stupid speculation, call Tony and ask him why he entered the way he did). In any event, it had nothing to do with the judge. For a fact, the owners knew how the dog was entered and why, but Ms. Daugherty could not possibly have known how the dog was entered prior to after the judging on the day of the show. Her job is to judge the dogs in her ring on the day, as she sees them; She did her job. People booed her because they did not like her choice and deeper at the heart of this, they speculate that she had an agenda other than judging dogs. That is speculation folks.

IF you want to know why a judge did what they did, ask them. If you stay within certain bounds, and are polite, they will tell you. You may not like hearing what they think of your dog… but they usually can back up what they did with their assessment of what a good dog is supposed to look and move like. This ringside speculation, that some people pass on as though they were omniscient, is almost always totally off base.

I think that booing a judge is the ultimate in poor sportsmanship. Like all of you, I have been ringside hundreds of times over the years when I did not like the judge's choice. I did not boo, nor did others around me. We suck it up, congratulate the winner and go on about our day. That is what the AKC rules and regs require us to do... that is what being a good sport requires of us.

As for whether Jackson has merit enough to win the breed from the classes, clearly he does, he’d done it before. He is a lovely dog. He may not be the embodiment of what you bred or like, but he is an excellent specimen of the breed. As for this offensive speculation about Mrs Daugherty’s motives, have the courtesy to speak with her. She will tell you unabashedly that she loves the dog. She put him up because he liked him, in her opinion he was the best of the breed on the day. I can see saying you will not show to her, because you do not have her style of dog, but I think booing her was reprehensible.

I am not one for calling Bench Show Committees on people, but if a group of people openly booed a judge at our show they’d be benched so fast their little heads would be spinning.

[doberdogsfd]

One of my very favorite expressions....:cool:


Just for the readers at large here , I do not give a rat's ass really but feel compelled to ask this.
I must be bored today.

Elaine, what do you think they are going to say,huh? " Oh no Elaine, I really do not like the dog...but..."
Now who is wearing the rose colored glasses?
LMAO!

Again....I am not a booer/hisser type for reasons stated in a past post. But others felt the need. WTFE!!
It kind of all is old news and hopefully after this we can all move past the stuff.


Later...CB

[Rauschund]

I really don't care why she did what she did. There were lots of people booing, not just one certain group. they have the right to not show to her again if they wish, which was obvious from the numbers she pulled in following assignment in our area. I don't have to agree with her picks, and as you can see we entered under her with Niko the following assignment. My personal opinion on that day will remain just that, personal.

[Elaine]

Elaine, what do you think they are going to say,huh? " Oh no Elaine, I really do not like the dog...but..."
Now who is wearing the rose colored glasses?


CB

I guess if a person is naïve enough to phrase something to the judge along the lines of, “Why didn’t you put up my dog?” they should expect an idiotic answer. But who would be that naïve? That’s be like saying, “So tell me, do you like my dog?” Or, “so tell me, do you think my baby is cute?" Who's gonna have the balls to say, "I think you should neuter it?" :D

In contrast, if you’re talking to the judge and at the end of the conversation you mention an assignment, and the judge gushes about a particular dog they had, in glowing detail, it’s a pretty fair bet that they love the dog. Talk to judges… most of them remember the dogs they put up and why... and they remember the dogs at the other end of the spectrum and what they thought of them as well.

There actually is considerably more merit to this process than is always apparent to those on the sidelines… most people haven’t a clue what’s going on or why. The point is simply that before people run off half-cocked based on their speculations, they might actually speak with the source and learn. But heck, if people want to live with their delusions, rather than the facts, who am I to argue?

Openly booing the judge is Conduct Prejudicial to the Sport. If you don't like the judge, don't show to them again. About this "boycott" of Ms Daugherty... she was down about 4 dogs in her next assignment. It didn't bother her one bit. She’s been around long enough to recognize disgruntled exhibitors. If you judge, it comes with the territory.


As for having the crowd ringside boo the dogs or judges they don’t like, and seeming to defend that as "an expression of personal opinion," is that really a direction you want to be advocating?

There were lots of people booing, not just one certain group.

In a short time you’d have Gwen’s people booing so-and-so… and Sophia’s crowd booing whom ever they hate in the moment. It may fit a gutter brawl mentality (that our culture is careening towards at near lightening speed), but who on earth would want to take part in events where a bunch of idiots ringside are booing each other? I would not attend such events and I don't think you would either.

We all have our personal opinions of the dogs we see, in and out of the ring. At an AKC show, we are required to keep those opinions private and I think doing so is sound policy.

[doberdogsfd]

"If people actually spoke to the judge involved (which I had occasion to do last Tuesday), they would know that she absolutely truly loved the dog"

Was that before or after she judged on a Tuesday?

Anyhow, here is the deal E', no one really cares but you.
See now you have gone from making this about an issue of a pick a judge made that it seems a lot of folks disagreed with and felt a need to act out over, to a personal attack of those who now disagree with your rather aggressive defense the issue.
Heck, I have no issue with the dog. Seems like a nice dog from the photos.

As you and I have discussed on many occasion, EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion....whether it falls in line with yours or not.

"I guess if a person is naïve enough to phrase something to the judge along the lines of, “Why didn’t you put up my dog?” they should expect an idiotic answer. But who would be that naïve? That’s be like saying, “So tell me, what did you think of my dog?” Or, “so tell me, do you think my baby is cute?" Who's gonna have the balls to say, "I think you should neuter it?"


Save the naive and idiotic bit for your pal....it appears it is in ample supply there.
Not very pleasant when the personal attacks come back, right?

You rock on Elaine.

Cheryl

[Elaine]

"If people actually spoke to the judge involved (which I had occasion to do last Tuesday), they would know that she absolutely truly loved the dog"

Was that before or after she judged on a Tuesday?
Anyhow, here is the deal E', no one really cares but you.
See now you have gone from making this about an issue of a pick a judge made that it seems a lot of folks disagreed with and felt a need to act out over, to a personal attack of those who now disagree with your rather aggressive defense the issue.
Heck, I have no issue with the dog. Seems like a nice dog from the photos.

As you and I have discussed on many occasion, EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion....whether it falls in line with yours or not.

"I guess if a person is naïve enough to phrase something to the judge along the lines of, “Why didn’t you put up my dog?” they should expect an idiotic answer. But who would be that naïve? That’s be like saying, “So tell me, what did you think of my dog?” Or, “so tell me, do you think my baby is cute?" Who's gonna have the balls to say, "I think you should neuter it?"


Save the naive and idiotic bit for your pal....it appears it is in ample supply there.
Not very pleasant when the personal attacks come back, right?

You rock on Elaine.

Cheryl



Looking at her schedule, I can't see where she's ever judged Dobermans on a Tuesday. Is that really the question you want to ask? Really?

You seem to have a burr up your butt these days... and I am getting tired of over looking it.

I spoke with her at the end of the weekend... days after she had judged our dog. Did I really need to tell you that? Really?

As for the rest of your bs, this is a discussion forum. At no point do you decide which topics can be discussed here. You have added nothing at all to this thread except your personal opinion that the topic is of no interest to you. If you don't want to be part of the topic, or have nothing constructive to add... pass the topic by.

[doberdogsfd]

Get over yourself Elaine.
I wasn't concerned about it really..trust me.:rolleyes:

The point I was making was you claim to believe speaking to the judge, if one isn't an idiot , should be done after an assignment...blah...blah...blah.
My curiosity was when on Tuesday did she judge. You cleared that up pretty well.

I didn't enter that specific day and it wasn't because the woman pointed at some other judge's dog a month earlier. DO NOT CARE!

It really is a discussion forum...again...you made my point for me well enough.
Everyone is entitled to their point of view and hopefully able to voice it.

Once I again you made my point on why the personal attack was not needed.
I just made my point with using your tactic.
I am assuming that is what the "bs" is you are referencing, lol......

Later...CB

[Elaine]

Get over yourself Elaine.
I wasn't concerned about it really..trust me.:rolleyes:

The point I was making was you claim to believe speaking to the judge, if one isn't an idiot , should be done after an assignment...blah...blah...blah.
My curiosity was when on Tuesday did she judge. You cleared that up pretty well.

I didn't enter that specific day and it wasn't because the woman pointed at some other judge's dog a month earlier. DO NOT CARE!

It really is a discussion forum...again...you made my point for me well enough.
Everyone is entitled to their point of view and hopefully able to voice it.

Once I again you made my point on why the personal attack was not needed.
I just made my point with using your tactic.
I am assuming that is what the "bs" is you are referencing, lol......

Later...CB

Cheryl,

I have taken the liberty of re-writing your post to eliminate the irrelevant personal stuff and distill what your relevant points were. Here it is:

I want to add another post even though I have nothing new to add. I haven’t a clue why you spoke with the judge and for some reason haven’t come right out and asked. I don’t like Ms Daughtery because we didn’t win under her. So I am taking pot-shots at her: by suggesting that she put up Jackson because he is owned by a judge; and am otherwise implicitly siding with a faceless nameless group of people who criticized her by booing her ringside (even if what they did is in fact Conduct Prejudicial to the Sport), because making her bad and wrong makes me feel better. And you Elaine annoy me a whole lot.

We had a specific reason to speak to all four judges on the panel that weekend. We did not single out Ms. Daugherty.. and it had nothing to do with advocating that they put up a given dog, nor did we discuss other dogs except that Ms Daughtery spoke of Jackson the way that most any judge speaks of a dog in an entry that they are thrilled to have put up. I am not advocating that anyone speak to a judge, so much as I am advocating that they get the facts before the run off with what they think happened. And I am advocating that we promote and defend sportsman like conduct ringside. We talk a lot about the process and about wanting judges to judge the dogs and not the handlers, and not simply give the Breed to a Special because it is the Special. That is what Ms. Daugherty did. She judged the dogs and said loud and clear, “I really, really, really like this young dog.” Booing a judge is the epitome of poor sportsmanship and is indefensible at an AKC show, most especially in this instance.

Most judges, certainly most good judges, have a passion for judging and they are thrilled to find what they believe is a good dog in their ring. They will usually talk about the dogs that really impressed them. Some judges, like Bill Shelton, can pretty much tell you why they placed any dog in their ring… even down through the classes. I get calls from time to time from friends who are judges, telling me about some exciting new young dog they found. If I get the chance, I always ask Mrs. Forsyth if she found any great dogs in her judging assignments. Good judges love to talk about good dogs. It's a part of the passion for the sport that we share, even if we may not agree with their opinion.

[doberdogsfd]

Nope...not annoyed toots, think you know that! LOL!

Let's review....Cheryl and Elaine will walk 10 miles for a good arguement and boy has it been boring here on DSNN until now.
IF I was all that annoyed I would be talking to you on the telly.

I am really on your side regarding the antics ringside. Do not agree with booing and all that.

Nope...don't care about what's her name at all...whether she likes my dog or not. Do not think he is her style and that is cool also. Why waste effort and all that stuff
Don't type or say things I do not mean, so you can take the above to the bank.

As you all do, I have dogs to ex and feed..enjoy your last evening of summer!

It has been fun though!;)

Cheryl

[Elaine]

Nope...not annoyed toots, think you know that! LOL!

Let's review....Cheryl and Elaine will walk 10 miles for a good arguement and boy has it been boring here on DSNN until now.
IF I was all that annoyed I would be talking to you on the telly.

I am really on your side regarding the antics ringside. Do not agree with booing and all that.

Nope...don't care about what's her name at all...whether she likes my dog or not. Do not think he is her style and that is cool also. Why waste effort and all that stuff
Don't type or say things I do not mean, so you can take the above to the bank.

As you all do, I have dogs to ex and feed..enjoy your last evening of summer!

It has been fun though!;)

Cheryl

Seems reasonable...:)

Btw, back to the thread itself, did anyone see the results in Raleigh for today. I hear that it was a bit controversial in the Dobe ring, so we'd better not even try to discuss it here. :D

-Toots (and farts) Greenwood

[doberdogsfd]

Stop, while we are ahead here!

Nope...didn't hear....leave until Friday we will be bored again....LMAO.........

[Elaine]

The Pekinese GCH Palacegarden Malachy went BIS again at the Salisbury North Carolina Kennel Club - under Kenneth Milller.

The BIS line up included: thIrish Setter bitch CH SHADAGEE CAUGHT RED-HANDED; the Whippet CH SPORTING FIELD'S BAHAMA SANDS; the Boxer CH. CH WINFALL BROOKWOOD STYLED DREAM; the Skye CH CRAGSMOOR BUDDY GOODMAN (the Lakeland HI-KEL TERRYDALE TOKENYO got a GrIV); the Bulldog CH KEPLEY'S SHOWBIZ RAZZLE DAZZLE; and the Briard,21 CH DIOR'S COPPER MINE.

Here's a link to the show catalog http://www.infodog.com/RESULTS/2010039802/2010039802GRP.HTM

[Elaine]

The Whippet, CH SPORTING FIELD'S BAHAMA SANDS went BIS Monday under Mrs. Kimberly Meredith-Cavanna.

The BIS line up included the Pekinese GCH Palacegarden Malachy; the Irish Setter, Ch SHADAGEE CAUGHT RED-HANDED, the Portuguese Water Dog, GCH AVIATORS LUCK BE A LADY; the Skye, Ch. Cragsmoor Buddy Goodman, the Bulldog CH KEPLEY'S SHOWBIZ RAZE DAZZLE; and the Briard CH DIOR'S COPPER MINE.

Overall I'd say this was about as consistent a BIS lineup as you're ever likely to see over a 6 day circuit. The Boxer did not manage to get a BIS, and the Peek: won three Friday, Saturday and Sunday, so that might shake up the Top Ten standings a bit, but other than that, it was really rather what you'd expect.

The Dobe won the Breed every day on this 6 show circuit and got a GrIII on the last day. And for some reason almost every Doberman in the entry on Monday pulled. There were no class dogs and only four bitches and two specials out of Dobermans. I sure hope Mr. Stein didn't take it personally, I don't think it had anything at all to do with him. :cool:

The hot young Lakeland Terrier - HI-KEL TERRYDALE TOKENYO did not show Monday, so Mrs. Forsyth did not get a chance to send it on to the Group. We expect to be hearing a lot from this dog in the future.

Here's a link to the show catalog http://www.infodog.com/results/2010041003/2010041003MAP.HTM

[Arthur]

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/ChSportingFieldsBahamaSands.jpg

I think these guys have been around for a couple years.
http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/charmollclansman3.jpg
Ch. Charmoll Clansman
Sire Ch. Sporting Fields Clansman
Winner of 5 Best in Shows

[Arthur]

http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/PalaceGardenMalacy1.jpg

I guess David Fitzpatrick has been at this a few days too.
http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/BriarcourtsDamienGable93GR1.jpg
Ch. Briarcourt's Damien Gable
Breeder: David Fitzpatrick
owner: Nancy Shapland

[Minka]

I'd class myself as a naive newbie; actually I'm more the wannabe naive newbie because I don't actually own a showable dog.
However not owning a dog that can compete in the does have its advantages
- Everybody has an opinion (coginito ergo sum), most people are willing to share opinions - there is this huge scope to learn; you pick what you want to pick up and let the rest drop.
- You get to observe a lot more at shows because people tend to talk a lot more freely at show & because you dont have blinkers on
In my very limited experience I have found

1. People do not put in the money,the time, the energy & the effort into going to a dog show to get beaten.
- If the legendary Jayne Forsyth was not likely to put my dog up - I wouldnt bother showing under her (then again if Jane Forsyth was not likely to put my dog up maybe I ought re - examine what I was showing and go back to learning structure) -Economics demands that I show where I have the best chance

2. People are reluctant to put in the money, the time, the energy & the effort into going to a dog show to add to someone elses glory - especially when they think they know that the winner is pre- determined

- I was at a show ( in whichever part of the world I was at ) a few weeks ago, the people I was with have enjoyed great sucess with that particular breed for 30 years in 4 continents.

- They won the group with this stunning young dog ; the dog was entered the next day but pulled. The breed record for BIS was up on the line and this grand old man was going to break it on the Sunday & everybody knew this was going to happen
- The breed had a turnout of 2 , the record fell and the legend retired

[Elaine]

Was "the grand old man " an Afghan Hound? Don't leave us hanging... who was it?

Btw, I had dinner last night with this woman and her husband. She's a bit older... but still - by far - the brightest most knowledgeable person in dogs. And her name is ends in "ane" not "ayne." http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab34/arthurgreenwood/janegray.jpg

[Minka]

Sorry E! , I might as well tell all if I told the world that.Lets put it this way
1. he has sired champions on 4 continents
2. even his detractors who do not like his phenotype call him a super show dog
3. a vetran now- his work rate in the ring is phenomenal