Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever

[andyhilt27]

My parents' Toy Fox Terrier bitch is in critical care right now with a suspected case of RMSF. Maggie's blood will not clot. There is hemorrhaging, high fever, and other symptoms. There goes my inheritance. I told them to put insurance on her! I hope she makes! I hope they put insurance on her after this. The blood work will back later today I think.

[Elaine]

Andy,
So sorry to hear about this... hope the little Maggie makes it through this. Btw, what area of the contry do they live in?
-E

[pretty dobe]

Oh my Andy that is too bad. We will all be waiting to hear the update. Hope she makes it through this. Keep us posted.... I'll have to research this and figure out what it is. Have another dog problem I have to check on for a friend also.

Judie

[andyhilt27]

Elaine, I live in Indiana. I do not know how common it is here but I think my Uncle had it in the late 70's. The vet is leaning towards RMSF or an autoimmune disorder. I will call my my mom later to see if the blood work has returned. I guess they are doing an echo and some other test on her lungs too.

[Elaine]

Was talking to Arthur tonight, he doesn't know much about the disease but he remebered it was a rickettsial illness.. so I Googled it.. here is what I found http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rmsf/

Rocky Mountain spotted fever is the most severe and most frequently reported rickettsial illness in the United States. It also occurs in Mexico and in Central and South America. The disease is caused by Rickettsia rickettsii, a species of bacteria that is spread to humans by ixodid (hard) ticks. Initial signs and symptoms of the disease include sudden onset of fever, headache, and muscle pain, followed by development of rash. The disease can be difficult to diagnose in the early stages, and without prompt and appropriate treatment it can be fatal.

[jkf]

Andy:
I'm sending you a little white healing light to your poor baby. I hope things turn around soon.
I am trying to make the decision about health insurance on Patrick. Not quite sure I want to do it. But if something happened then I would be kicking myself.
Julie

[andyhilt27]

No blood work yet. She may get released today. They put her on a drug similar to tetracycline. I think her symptoms are classic RMSF. Vasculitus, edema, high fever, etc. RMSF is the bacterial equivalent of rat poison. I think the hemorrhaging was stopped before it started in the major organs. She is getting better and I will post the results of the blood work.

What is weird about this is that Maggie is an inside dog. She spends most of her time inside the house. I guess it wouldn't take but a few seconds to be in the grass and get bitten by a tick.

[Sheila]

Hi Andy
Sure hope Maggie recovers fully. That is a nasty disease! Keep us posted about how she's doing. Prayers coming from north of the border.
Sheila

[Ann Lanier]

Andy,

My dog's mother ..produced..11 champions I think in 2 litters... died of ehrlichia. It is a tick born disease and she just bled to death, bleeding from everywhere.

The thing, is another of their dogs had died of it not so long before, but they didn't treat everyone. If one dog has it all the dogs and possibly people are quite as likely also to have it. It is a bacteria, not a worm, but if one of your dogs has any kind of worm you can assume they ALL do. Same like with fleas and ticks. It was a tragedy to lose that young beautiful bitch. I remember we were all really unhappy they didn't treat all their dogs.

As I recall after this 25 years later, it can be transmitted when the ticks are just pinhead size, so you don't count on seeing them. I think the treatment of choice was tetracycline. It was very scary because she bled and bled and her vets then didn't understand why. Any mammal in contact with the same environment may want to be tested and or just treated prophylactically. The vets then (early 1980's) did not recognize why the dog was bleeding from ears, eyes, mouth, other end....

Below is a link that I don't know how to activate, but please avail yourself of the info ASAP. I hope the doggie is okay, but this makes my tummy churn just thinking of it!

a

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_ehrlichia_infection_in_dogs.html

[andyhilt27]

Maggies blood work came back negative for RMSF or any other tick related illness. The emergency clinic and her primary vet are in aggreement that this was caused by her rabbies vaccination. So......do you keep a house dog legal or alive?

[Elaine]

Am curious, how do they figure it was the vaccination. I have never known of a vet who would say that a problem was caused by a vaccine. Btw, which brand of vaccine was it?

[andyhilt27]

Good question Elaine. I only spoke briefly with my mother about this so I did not get all of the details. The vets said something to the effect of her having the vaccination within the last 45 days.

I will get as much info as I can when I look at Maggie's paperwork. I would like to speak to all vets involved.

All the brief research I have done in the last five minutes all turn to allergic reactions to the vaccines, which in no way describe what that poor little dog went through......I'll contact the Vets on Monday.

[Elaine]

here are links to some information you might find useful:

from quoted material on our website: http://logresfarm.com/Health%20Info.htm

And, Dr. W Jean Dodds' website http://www.doglogic.com/vaccination.htm

[andyhilt27]

Interesting links......I see now where vasculitis can be an adverse reaction to a drug or foreign substance.

I just spoke with my mother again and Maggie had her vaccinations approximately 2 weeks prior to her falling ill. Long story short, the Vet refuses to vaccinate her ever again. But again, I will get all of the paper work together and call him to get all of the medical jargon and details correct.


Interestingly enough Elaine, there is at least one more Vet against vaccinating.

[Elaine]

Dr. Dodds has been speaking out about vaccines and vaccination protocols for over twenty years... or longer. We agree with her and never give combined shots, and, with one exception to accommodate an ear cropper, we don’t start them till 9 weeks.

I have just never heard of another vet agreeing with Dodds. Most go in the other direction, so I was interested that you mother has a vet that says the reaction was to the rabies vaccine. I don't doubt what the vet said, it's just that it would be almost impossible to prove one way or the other, and I just found the opinion interesting.

[andyhilt27]

The same vet claimed that a chihuahua died around the same time from a suspected reaction to the rabies vaccination. I don't know if the owners were not willing to spend the dough on the dog or what exactly happened.

[mosso]

were other tick borne diseases ruled out? (you said a tetracycline type drug was used, and effective? maybe doxycycline?)

lots of info on various tbd's in dogs here http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ticklinks.htm

We had a case of what we thought was probably lymphoma, but a blood smear showed babesia in RBC's ... Imizol was given ... the bitch is still alive over 2 years later (treated two more times for same, with two other protocols). The presentation of various TBD's is quite varied, in dogs and in humans.

I hate ticks. oh, and no, they don't have to stay on the dog very long at all to transmit something (nor to humans). the tick that gave me babesia microti didn't read the literature, and was on my leg less than 24 hours...

eek.
stir

[andyhilt27]

Stir, the vets did the whole tick panel bloodwork so I would think any other tick related ailment is ruled out. I think they had her on doxy. She showed remarkable improvement after the platelet transfusions.

[Ann Lanier]

Hope your doggirl is better....

On my tiny Yorkie, I resisted giving her another rabies shot. My vet agreed, except for the legal question. But he said they had just ordered killed virus vaccine for some ferrets which is much less reactive, and he had a dose left, so that is what she got. Ferrets are much more likely to have adverse effects so apparently they get special vaccine.

I just posted this FYI, I haven't had time to ask him about it RE:bigger dogs, but it might possibly be a solution to health vs legalities if a rabies shot is a rabies shot is a rabies shot............ She has the same tag and certificate. Obviously the vaccine prepared for a one or two pound animal might be less concentrated, but I don't think it was only that, I think it was the preparation... that it is killed or.....

Picabo's vet is an endocrinologist, old and wise....

I will try to find out more if anyone is interested........

a

[dobesign]

How about get a Rabies Titer done, which DOES meet the legal requirement, then you don't NEED a rabies vaccination!::cool:

[andyhilt27]

Rabies titers are sufficient in terms of legality????? I did not know that. Thanks Brenna!

I assumed the vac. manufacturers had the laws corrupted in their favor.