Baystar's All In The Family: Picture

[Kissntell]

Since I finally learned how to post pictures here, I thought I would post the same picture which I put in her thread here. That way people would not have to scroll through the entire thread in order to see her picture.

This is Ch Trotyl De Black Shadow x Ch Baystar's American Woman

So here it is:

[Elaine]

lovely lovely puppy... and so smoothly put together... that really seemed to be a nice breeding :)

[Elaine2]

Very beautiful girl.
Welcome to the group Kissntell.
E2

[andyhilt27]

How old is she? 8 months??? Pretty girl

[dobesign]

this litter was born at the beginning of january 2008 (moose is in this litter), so they are almost 7 months:D

[Kissntell]

I think that in this litter, there was a lot of difficulty in picking who's who. There were all sorts of opinions on these puppies. I have seen the pictures of this litter, and my picks were entirely different than others. Ed Palsat's pick bitch, I had for a pet...and so it goes.

I got a phone call from Ed Palsat the other night and he was concerned that his "pick" bitch was now not the pick bitch. He said he was worried that she was too big. His first question was how much did my bitch weigh?

Anyway, I have learned to listen to others' opinions, but to make my own decisions. So I always make my cut according to my standards of how I see them.

Do you remember Joe Chaccio? This man spent a great deal of time with me on one of my litters, actually the whole day, and he taught me the standard inside and out. He wouldn't take a cent in payment. He said if you're going to be in the breed, you need to know the standard. He did this by volunteer just for the love of the breed. Until you have someone really spend time with you, that really knows what they are looking at, you are pretty much in the dark.

Of course I always have others with a good respectible eye take a look for their opinon as well. So I have taken Macy to a few Doberman folks to see what they think. I think at this point, the proof will be in the pudding.

[andyhilt27]

I had some input on Eva.....Some pro and some con. It really came down to me listening to my gut. She has exceeded my expectations so far. I will post more recent pics of her soon. I spoke briefly with Ed on the phone about this litter that your bitch is from. Ed is a nice man and I never got back with him on the puppy after I found Eva. She was closer to me. Ed's litter may have been a better route to go but I don't regret Eva one bit.:)

Where are you located kissntell?

[Kissntell]

Andy...I am in San Diego. So I doubt you will ever see this bitch unless a National comes closer to me and than you go to that National.

Everybody judges puppys different. I have seen the pictures of this litter and I found the pick, to be the pet, and the pet, to be the pick. However, it is always best to evaluate puppies hands on.

My last show bitch before this one, who got sick on me, was evaluated to be the last pick, and she turned out the best bitch. So... only so much can really be seen at 8 weeks. It is all major guess work!

A lot has to do with the position each puppy got in the uterus and thus the nutrition given in that period. After the puppy grows up, having the proper nutriton without competition, the puppy will grow up as it was ment to be. Maybe that's why, believing that, I tend to like the little ones in the litter unlike those who like the big. They to me, tend to finish out with the elegance of the breed I like. However, it is always pertinant to consider the finished size of sire and dam and those up in the pedigree. At least that is my opinion.

Of course when puppies are 8 weeks old, there is always a chance to see what's there and what's not.

I look for different things then others. I also will actually get out my measuring tape when I have a live puppy and literally measure the angles. Eye balling to me can be deceving. At least, that is how Joe showed me to see those angles.

Poor Macy she is sick of my measuring tape. So far I am thankful because her angles are lineing up. But as I said, when and if, I finally do get her in the ring...the proof will be in the pudding. Championships are all about how several judges saw the animal. That's why one week you can be dumped and win the other.

[Elaine]

I think the designation “pick” is pretty much worthless if it is meant as an indication of which is "the best" puppy in a litter. The only value "pick" has is if someone wants to use it as the basis for charging more for an individual puppy :rolleyes:, or if someone agrees to give another person first “choice” from a litter. But that has more to do with the right to choose first, than some objective evaluation at some arbitrary age (often about eight weeks) that the puppies in a given litter fall in some arbitrary hierarchy of quality from say 1 to 8. :cool:


“Pick” is dependant upon who is making the assessment, and to some degree, what their motives are. Over the years I have seen a whole lot of people (including purported and/or self proclaimed experts), get it totally wrong abut who is “pick”... which pisses lots of people off when the animal they thought was the best in the litter turns out not to be. And, we all know, the “1st pick from a mediocre litter is still a mediocre dog, where as 4th “pick” from an outstanding litter may be a outstanding dog. I think Michelle Santana said something about waiting till they’ve finished and then deciding... :D :D:D but even then, you have to wait to see who is the best producer, because, ultimately showing dogs is about indentifying the best animals of the breed to go forward into the next generation.

In an outcross litter (especially if it’s early in a dog or bitches breeding career) I think that this idea of “pick puppy” is even more meaningless than in a line-bred litter. For example, I think that its safe to make some claims now about what Trotyl produces, because he has roughly twenty litters on the ground now, but back when we bred Brentina to him for the first time, we were literally the second breeder to use him. It would have been completely idiotic to be guessing about which dog was pick from the first litter, and even now, I still can’t say that one is the pick... they are all very different and I love different things about each one. The second Trotyl litter is different yet again.

[andyhilt27]

Is the difficulty of picking the best puppy dependant on the breed? In Tabitha's first litter (toy fox terrier) it was pretty cut and dry. Although it was only a litter of two.:)

[Kissntell]

Elaine you have really said it well.

I have seen so many times people who really know the breed select so different. In this litter of which my puppy came, I selected so different than others, after the fact. That is a long and different story too much to post.

I would guess this is the same way in many breeds. My mother use to do Boston Terriers. Now in that there are things people look for such as size and markings. The markings are not always put on as neatly as our breed. An oversize Boston is less desireable than smaller.

So maybe in different breeds there is a different call.

[Rauschund]

Really nice puppy girl, I hope you have alot of fun with her. Welcome to the list too!

[Kissntell]

Thank You.

I'm not sure where I'm going to go with this girl.

I generally let my dogs and time decide.