Legends At The Nationals

[Absolute]

Wasn’t planning on going to the Nationals, but I understand there will be some legends there. It this true? Has it been verified that these legends will attend. I may change my mind, can anyone tell me who the legends are and what they are legendary for?? Sounds really exciting !!!!!!!! If I don’t make it can anyone please get me an autograph?? Thanks for your help.....

[Elaine]

Hey, we’re not going either …

About those legends… I assume they meant " living" legends, not so fun sitting through dinner with the kind of people we typically think of as "Legends" ... they'd all smell funny. :p

Hmmm ... "legends"... that's a pretty impressive title to be throwing around... can’t help with what any of the fine folks mentioned have done to fit the category 'legends." For example, Bill Garnet had a top winning dog in the 1970’s, but I think he bought the dog, don’t think he bred it. Not sure though, anyone know his kennel name? I'm really not sure what he's a legend for.

It's about the same with all for them... maybe one of them did something outside of dogs that they're going to talk about... did one of them discover penicillin, radium, global warming... or something? :confused:

[dobesign]

more important than inventing penecillin...who the heck invennted the plastic POOP bag. Dang, some people are soooo smart. But I don't think I'd want to sit next to the POOP legend either....:eek::p There's enough poop happening in venues with legends....:D

[doberdogsfd]

Legends huh? I only have one or two names jump readily to mind, but they have crossed over.
I am sure there are some that are Legends in their own minds, but in reality???

Cheryl

PS...Where were you guys yesterday? I was playing hookie and bored.....one could hear crickets on DSNN......LOL!

[Elaine]

About yesterday, we were recovering from huge lack of sleep... what can I say? We're getting to be a bunch of geezers... life just goes a little slower these days, we've all seen 29 from the rear view mirrior, some of us more than once. :D

About the LEGEND thing... maybe what’s throwing us it that a legend is a story or a list, not a person. Now, possibly a person has accomplished something that is legendary… but in dogs, that’d be a pretty short list of people. Most of the legendary figures I can think of are dead… and I try to avoid sit-down meals with dead guys.... it's a personal hygiene thing. :D

If I could resurrect someone in the context of "greatness" in dogs… someone to have dinner with (and pick their brains about a given breed and how to produce great dogs), it would have to be someone with a demonstrable ability to recognize dozens of great dogs and who’s breeding genius changed their breed in a positive way by breeding generations and generations of dogs that we all look for in a pedigrees... dogs that influenced their breeds.

On that list might be Julia Gasow in Springer Spaniels (Salilyn Kennel) or Eva Weatherill and Raymond Oppenheimer in Bull Terriers (Ormandy Kennel). Raymond Oppenheimer’s "Twenty Principles of Breeding Better Dogs" is worth a read… http://letsdiscussjudging.com/oppenheimer.html , but Rayomond walked the walk (and along with Eva) he helped change the Bull Terrier breed for the better.

I have sat ringside with Peggy Adamson... through a specialty... lovely woman... but she was on a pretty short list of people you'd want to listen to for hours at a time. Most of the others I can think of would prompt E2's favorite response after about ten mintues. :D

[Athy]

This is the list of "living legends" as defined by the DPCA (Linda Krukar was removed because she won't be in Topeka this year):

Marj Brooks
Dr. Sam Burke Jr.
Nancy Christensen
Judy Doniere
Bill Garnett

I agree that the use of the term "legends" is probably over the top. I think all these folks could be viewed as influential in the Doberman community today for one reason or another. But I agree, I think the use of the term "legend" may not be entirely apt and for purposes of accuracy or just plain respect to those who really are legends (like Peggy Adamson), the creators of this raffle probably should have used a more appropriate term.

Quite frankly, I'd prefer to have dinner with Ann Lanier :) Talk about a lady who know where all the bodies are buried :D

[Elaine]

This is the list of "living legends" as defined by the DPCA (Linda Krukar was removed because she won't be in Topeka this year):

Marj Brooks
Dr. Sam Burke Jr.
Nancy Christensen
Judy Doniere
Bill Garnett


Quite frankly, I'd prefer to have dinner with Ann Lanier :) Talk about a lady who know where all the bodies are buried :D

Gotta agree with you there... I'd love to spend the evening with Ann, or sit wth her ringside. But I suspect Ann would be mortified to be referred to as a "legend."

[Ann Lanier]

Haha! I have seen the ol' 29 in the rear view mirror a couple times my own self. I sort of doubt I'm the kind of legend that was meant.

But yes, Peggy Adamson is a legend, a real one! What a wise wise woman! Did you know as a child she participated in a Stanford study for which the basic requirement was an IQ of 165? The 'average genius' IQ level is 140.

But all is not lost. I saved her papers, pictures and letters. Among them, Peggy wrote:
My mind is like sparks shooting out in all directions--there is so much I want to do, but dear God, that is what I have been thinking for THIRTY years! My biggest fear is that something will happen to me, and all that I know and all the information that I have accumulated will be lost before I get time to put it on paper! Yet I have been thinking this all my life. Time, Time, TIME! That most precious of treasures. What is there that can compare with it? Power, wealth, beauty, even health? The one thing we can never get enough of is TIME.

Even though her time ran out, Peggy's archives are safe, and who knows, maybe someday her genius will be made available. At least we have it. Her own explanation of the Doberman Standard is safe in the so-called, "Blue Book", the Learning to Judge the American Doberman Pinscher booklet which she and Frank Grover, another legend, wrote the summer before they were removed from the DPCA Judges Education Committee (by many on this same DPCA BoD.) Available from the DPCA Educational Materials.

Here is a picture of Peggy that I snapped at her last National. She had only a few months to live.

a

[Elaine]

You’ve gotta wonder if the breed will survive the sheer stupidity and arrogance of some members of this board. :mad:

[VeloAlison]

The only one of the 'list' I would like to talk to is Marj. The rest of them, well, if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all. I won't be going to the national either.

As far as this BOD goes, they have GOT to go. I think the DPCA needs a breath of fresh air! Lets get some young people in there that actually breed, show and love the breed. Perhaps people without an ego and an agenda? Just a thought.

Alison McDonald

[Kalecho]

The only one of the 'list' I would like to talk to is Marj. The rest of them, well, if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all. I won't be going to the national either.

As far as this BOD goes, they have GOT to go. I think the DPCA needs a breath of fresh air! Lets get some young people in there that actually breed, show and love the breed. Perhaps people without an ego and an agenda? Just a thought.

Alison McDonald


Gosh, that would be so nice, think it will ever happen?

[Absolute]

I agree!! New BOD’s, no Agendas and no egos!!! Does the president own a Dobe and when was the last time he did? and when did he last breed a litter? and I’m going to show to him?? LOL . I have talked to so many people that aren’t going, I WONDER WHY????? LOL, SO I guess next year it's who? to judge? the same again and again and again and again!!! I will say Marj is knowledgeable. The biggest Doberman I ever saw was bred by Judy D. Do as she says not as she did. Hate I’m going to miss it, don’t forget my autograph!!

[Elaine]

In spite of the way some members of the current Board act, the DPCA does not belong to any individual or group of individuals. The DPCA belongs to the breed… breeders sustain the breed. Whatever one feels about the contribution of the group in power, whether it be good, bad or indifferent, this group has done enough. They need to back away from the table and take a break… for at least the next 20 years. Give some others a chance. We have seen the cumulative effect of their leadership over the years. Maybe they began with good intentions, maybe they intended to serve the breed and the club as a whole, but I believe their leadership has proven toxic and divisive over time… with one bad decision after another, that is tearing this club apart. There are too many personal agendas and too much self-serving cronyism … and there is far too much influence from a gossip mill run by a woman in California who does not own or breed Dobermans. It is time for a change, it is time for fresh ideas and time to turn away from the old destructive agendas of the past.

[LoveThoseReds]

This all sounds good, but who here will step up to the plate and would truly give of themselves and their time to be on the Board?

When Linda and Ron headed up the nominating committee this year, who emailed them to volunteer for a position?

[Elaine]

Actually, when Ron Babics called last year I believe that Arthur and or I said yes, and we offered a few other names as well. We heard back that existing members of the board wanted to run again, so the nominating committee essentially said, “okay.”

[pretty dobe]

Be careful what you wish for...The woman in CA could be your next head of the DPCA....:eek::eek::eek:

Agree on Marg....She is great person for sharing her knowledge and always has time for folks.:):)

Judie

[LoveThoseReds]

Just because you don't get nominated by the nominating committee, it doesn't mean that you can't get your name on the ballot. The C&BL outlines what a member needs to do to get on the ballot. Did anyone follow the C&BL to get their name on the ballot? It doesn't seem like anyone did, because I don't recall voting for any position since there wasn't more than 1 person running.

Nothing gets "fixed" or changes if all members do is complain about the BOD and the members don't DO anything to change the leadership.

There will be 3 BOD positions open in '09 for those positions that were filled for 2007-2009. Who here will be sending their petition to the recoding secretary by July 1, 2009?

[Spartan]

Nothing gets "fixed" or changes if all members do is complain about the BOD and the members don't DO anything to change the leadership.


I agree that if we are going to complain we should be willing to take action. Part of the issue as I see it is that there are no term limits for the board and the nominating committee is made up of board members. Now we all know over time relationships develop and the nominating committee will not tell an existing board member that they are not going to put them on the ballot. To your point there is a way to get on the ballot but it is not an easy path by any stretch. According to the C&BL one must get 10 other members in good standing to sign a petition to be added to the slate. This requires some work because you have call people, make sure they are in good standing, send them the petition have them send it back and then keep it moving until to you get all 10 signatures. Then you have to get it to the Recording secretary. It seems to me that the process is a bit cumbersome and causes folks to shy away. Most of us have hectic lives and a lot going on so taking the time it would take to get on the ballot is extreme. It should be simplified in my opinion, the nominating committee is announced, there should be a way to express interest and then they can pear the list down. If 30 people apply either add them all to the ballot or have a system to reduce it to a manageable number. The current process is designed to keep those on the board in their seats uncontested. Then there is also the caveat that one has to be a member in good standing for 3 years before being nominated for the BoD or any other position.
I wonder if someone actually followed the process and got their name on the ballot, if they would have a chance to win. John or Joan Smith end up on the ballot, they are not a judge or big name in the breed, they are not breeders, they are just devoted to the breed and want to try and make some positive changes because they do not agree with the way things are. Will they be considered? It seems there is a common thought that if you have not bred dogs you do not really know what needs to be done. I can tell you I have not bred dogs up to this point; however I do know what the breed standard says, and when I am the victim of politics etc. After more than 20 years of corporate life I know when there is too much cronyism. I know that it costs me the same amount of money to pay my handler, hotel bill, gas, and food and entry fees as it does anyone else. I also know that without those of us who buy dogs and show them there is no need for them to be bred, but will that be enough to win an election? Or will the fact that Joan or John Smith's opponent being a judge or "powerful" person in the breed be enough to kill their chances?
I do not claim to have the answers but I think it should all start with term limits so that no one can be on the BoD for 10 years straight. Then I think there should be a simpler way to get nominated. I also think that one should only have to be a member for 1 year to be nominated. I am not sure how the extra 2 years make one more qualified.

To be clear I am not trying to take a shot at those who are breeders, God Bless you all. The work and time that goes into breeding is amazing and without you I would not have the wonderful companions I live with. But when I stand ring side and hear all the chatter about this one is "powerful" and that is not they haven't bred anything it makes me wonder. I am fairly certain that I love my Dober Kids as much as anyone. I do intend on breeding in the not too distant future. I am not sure they will make me more qualified to serve on the BoD but it might.

Just My Thoughts

[Kissntell]

Of course I always write the controversial:

I was a DPCA memeber for many years. I got out because I did not like what was going on in the DPCA. I decided not to financially support what wasn't right. Things haven't changed much from 10 years ago. I was surprised when I came back. Oh so many new kennel names and new breeders. And...they now are in the "on line" "Breeder's Directory."

I recently rejoined because I could see that unless you can be on the DPCA "Breeders Directory" you are nothing in terms of folks being interested in your puppies. I was always in the breeders directory; but this was pre internet. Now I am nothing again, according to their new rules, and I have to wait the three years. When in fact, I bred litters way before any of these people were even thought of!

I agree that the DPCA is full of the select few. And...if people have the wits to change it, maybe the club could become everybody's club as it was meant to be. I must say, that some of the older memebers, or old timers are some great people too, don't get me wrong.

The DPCA and the Doberman world is a club of which only the elite are welcome. At least this is my finding. Unless you are somebody, you are not allowed into this elite club. It is a closed elite yacht club.

It is almost to the point of why show? My money is no different than other's money. I bleed the same color of money at the shows. But oh have I seen the big people always win. And tell me...the judges are the same ones over and over and they don't know who the dogs are? And, the handlers always want to show their dogs. Is it because they are from a larger stable that can saddle them up with more horses?

If nothing less, I have noticed that certain handlers put more effort on the dogs they want to win. Don't get me wrong, I've never had trouble getting a handler because what I offered to be shown were some nice dogs. But the effort I watch is still like night and day.

I have been observing handlers for some time now. Just as I look for a stud dog, I look at handlers. So its not that I am a poor looser. I don't have any dogs in the ring. I am watching their presentation of the dogs given to them to handle. That is a factor in who I finally choose.

This is a bone of contention with me. I am willing to hire and pay a handler to show my dogs. But I am not willing to pay for a poor handling job because the bigger name's owned dogs is their priority.

This crap was going on in the early 90's when I was showing with handlers before. I think that a handler should put forth equal efforts on peoples' dogs irregardless of the owner or the pedigree. If they agree to show the animal, they show with all their professionalism.

There are a very limited number of handlers doing that right now. Do they not know that we the "clients" notice this stuff going on and decide to pull our dogs? Thus, there are only the big names left.

The DPCA boards need to change as well. I like the ideas above. It just takes people who are fed up enough and willing to change things.

If one comes in with a decent dog, they should have a decent chance. Just as if one wants to be a board member the door should be open.

I just couldn't help but to get this off my chest. It has been going on for some time now. I don't wish to waste my money if I have lost before I get to the gate. :mad:

[Elaine]

There are some excellent points being made here… I agree that term limits would be a good thing… the current system is geared towards retaining the same group, and, good, bad or indifferent, they have contributed enough (and in the process alienated many good Doberman people).

DPCA members are a bright group, I think we all realize that no BoD is going to please every one. No one I know is complaining about a single bad policy decision. Rather, it’s cumulative bad decisions, that over time are taking the club in the wrong direction. One reflection of this is that our National had one of the smallest entries ever. Many DPCA members are simply tired of the status quo. This group of “leaders” has been around long enough… we need a fresh perspective, fresh insight and new leadership in the DPCA.

[LoveThoseReds]

There are some excellent points being made here… I agree that term limits would be a good thing… the current system is geared towards retaining the same group, and, good, bad or indifferent, they have contributed enough (and in the process alienated many good Doberman people).

DPCA members are a bright group, I think we all realize that no BoD is going to please every one. No one I know is complaining about a single bad policy decision. Rather, it’s cumulative bad decisions, that over time are taking the club in the wrong direction. One reflection of this is that our National had one of the smallest entries ever. Many DPCA members are simply tired of the status quo. This group of “leaders” has been around long enough… we need a fresh perspective, fresh insight and new leadership in the DPCA.

Are you saying that this year's low entries were due to who the officers and Board of Directors are?

Looking at the DPCA member directory, every officer position and 3 director positions will be open in 2009. If you really want to serve the club, why don't you contact one of the officers/directors and talk to them and express your interest in taking over an officer/director position? You can't sit on the sidelines wishing to be considered for a position without reaching out and letting your wishes be known. You can't be a great candidate for an officer/director without ever volunteering for something before hand to "prove" yourself.

No, doing the whole 10 signature thing isn't easy, but if you that to change, then speak up.

[Elaine]

Are you saying that this year's low entries were due to who the officers and Board of Directors are?

Oh my yes, I am saying that and a whole lot more. The utter lack of enthusiasm for this year’s Nationals is a reflection of the membership’s rejection of a composite of choices made by this Board and of their leadership as a whole. The judgment and leadership of this group of people is becoming toxic to the unity of our club… we are becoming more and more fractured and divisive.

Personally, after watching this all over the years, we would not spend two cents to be in the same city with some of them. much less spend thousands to attend the event in Kansas. If you want a detailed analysis of why, read some of these forums.

Bottom line, as DPCA members we have a right to the observation that the club is swirling round the drain under the present leadership. We do not have to be members of the BoD, nor do we have to be willing to run for the BoD to make that observation or to express our opinions on the club's leadership. For what it’s worth, both Arthur and I indicated that we’d run for the BoD… I am sure others have as well, but I doubt any of us care to spend our time and energy on a fight with such firmly entrenched special interests, who are becoming toxic to the unity of this club.

Take a look at the track record of these people, look at their leadership and policy decisions… look at the the poor judgment and the bias they repeatedly show. Look at what Sam and Dana are allowing McNealy to do now on the DPCA members only list. Regardless of what McNealy and her buddies think of Marcia, none of their redundant personal opinions should be aired on our members list. It’s obvious that ol’ McNealy is at it again, she has her mind set on destroying yet another DPCA member, the way she has done so many times in the past, because she has some agenda… and she is going way over the top with this current attack. Do you for one moment think it is appropriate for McNealy and her gang of internet thugs to be attacking Marcia on a our club’s list. I do not. Regardless of whether a rescue booth was staffed 24/7, this is NOT how a complaint should be handled, and yet Sam and Dana are allowing it.

We should take every one of McNealy’s diatribes about Marcia and switch it up a bit, inserting the word McNealy, and publicly rake her over the coals for every stupid, nasty, petty thing she has done in the past 20 years… we should hold McNealy accountable for all the destructive things she has done to our club over the years… but really, is that the purpose of the DPCA members only list? Dana and Sam would shut the discussion down in a second, but they are allowing this mess with McNealy attacking Marcia. As ridiculous as it sounds, the DPCA is allowing a woman in California (who does not even own a Doberman) to run our club. That, in and of itself, is pathetic and should not be allowed.

[LoveThoseReds]

I would have imagined that the lower than normal turn out would be due to the judging panel and/or the show being in Kansas. I had no idea that people don't exhibit at the Nationals because of who the officers and board of directors are. That never entered my thought process when I decide whether to go to a Nationals or not.

[LoveThoseReds]

Bottom line, as DPCA members we have a right to the observation that the club is swirling round the drain under the present leadership. We do not have to be members of the BoD, nor do we have to be willing to run for the BoD to make that observation or to express our opinions on the club's leadership. For what it’s worth, both Arthur and I indicated that we’d run for the BoD… I am sure others have as well, but I doubt any of us care to spend our time and energy on a fight with such firmly entrenched special interests, who are becoming toxic to the unity of this club.

Oh I absolutely agree that as members we have the right to express our opinions. But my question is besides expressing opinions, what are most members willing to do to be part of the solution? If you see changes need to be made, are you bringing it up to anyone or just talking about it? It is true that bringing it up to the Board may indeed fall on deaf ears, but on the other hand, that may not happen. Maybe I'm too naive in my thinking, but I believe things can change. May not happen overnight or even in a year or two, but they can.

If this board really want to discuss issues, then discuss them and cite names and bad decisions board members have made. Say who the bad leaders are and why. I have read some of the past messages, but certainly not all, so if messages exist that cover all of this, my apologies for not seeing/reading them.

How does a club the size of DPCA make the majority of the members happy most of the time? This is a serious question... what can it change to make this happen? What overhaul is needed?

[LoveThoseReds]

For what it’s worth, both Arthur and I indicated that we’d run for the BoD… I am sure others have as well, but I doubt any of us care to spend our time and energy on a fight with such firmly entrenched special interests, who are becoming toxic to the unity of this club.

The recording secretary of the DPCA has announced on the DPCA message board she will not be running for re-election.

Will anyone here be applying for that position? Here's your chance to be on the board.

[Elaine]

Of all the talents I do not possess, of all the skills I lack, those required of a recording secretary are at the top of the list. I would fail utterly as recording secretary.

[Ann Lanier]

Of all the talents I do not possess, of all the skills I lack, those required of a recording secretary are at the top of the list. I would fail utterly as recording secretary.

:D I was kind of thinking submarine lawn-mower-race-driver would hold that honor.......

a

[Elaine]

Hey, back off there a bit ... I am a Skip Barber Graduate!!! :cool: so Race Car Driver stays... the rest you pretty much nailed. :) :p