Wanda and CyberDobes response to our threads on Stella

[Elaine]

It is my understanding that Alla’s friend Wanda has published a series of emails (or links to emails) on CyberDobes, which seem to be in response to our thread here on DSNN. From what I have seen of what Wanda references, there was some concern over what Dr. Danoff was feeding… in terms of amount, and some concern about activity levels. My understanding is that the DAR &E Board of Directors addressed these concerns with considerable specificity before (and embodied in) the final adoption of Stella to Dr. Danoff. The rogue rescue workers who lied to the DAR&E Board of Directors, lied to Dr. Danoff and committed a felony were never just or righteous. It seems to me that they were simply liars, supported by misguided gossips, who went too far and broke the law. And now they want to scramble back behind some weak line of defense.

We have owned dogs, including Dobermans, for decades. Arthur is a medical doctor. It's fair to say that we have some dog related experience and some experience with the medical end of weight related issues. Dr. Danoff was feeding Stella less than what we feed, but we DO NOT own an exctadactal dog. We have no experience with this deformity (hell, I can’t even spell the word). I have no basis in fact, in veterinary medicine or in life experience upon which to challenge Dr. Danoff’s assessment of the ideal weight for an extadactal dog like Stella, and certainly not to challenge her judgment to the level where I would commit a felony by stealing her dog. I have no basis in fact, in veterinary medicine or in life experience upon which to challenge Dr. Danoff’s opinion that Stella was better off long-term if she were kept a bit thin to avoid stress on her legs. Dr. Danoff has experience with exctdactal dogs, as did the Veterinary Orthopedic Specialist at North Carolina State University who examined Stella. Both felt Stella’s weight was within the range of acceptable limits for Stella's specific condition.

Would I have liked to see a few more pound? “Yes.” Would I commit a felony over a few pounds, “Hell no!!!” Would I rip apart the loving bond between Stella and Dr Danoff over a disagreement over a few pounds? “Hell Fuckin NO!!”

As for Stella's behavior problems, without question her early life created serious challenges for house breaking and living normally in a home environment. We all know that these are serious obstacles to finding a permanent home for any dog. Most people run from dogs with Stella's problems. Heck, these are the very dogs that end up in rescue because people don't want to deal with these kinds of problems. Dr. Danoff embraced the challenges Stella's life history presented and she was working through Stella's issues. The process takes time; we all know that. It takes at least as long to extinguish a wrong behavior as it did to create the wrong behavior in the first place. Kim Danoff put her heart and soul into Stella. She loved Stella and was devoted to her. She relied upon her personal and professional expertise, and she sought advice from other professionals when appropriate. Who among us could have done better? In fact, how many among us would have done as much? It seems to me that the fact that Stella could function in a home situation at all was entirely do to the hundreds and hundreds of hours of love and devotion Kim Danoff focused on Stella. Over a ten-month period Dr Danoff had turned Stella’s life around for the better, and then some frickin rescue maniacs decided that the progress didn’t suit them, so they stole Stella.

Behaviorists who worked with Dr. Danoff felt she was on the right track with Stella. Experienced veterinarians and professionals felt that Stella’s weight was within an acceptable range and that Stella was making progress on behavioral issues. They felt that Dr. Danoff was the right home for Stella. Of all the dogs in the world truly in need of rescue... Stella was simply not one.

Here are some problems for Alla and her buddies. If you go to this link http://www.tailedtreasuresofmd.com/id26.html you can read Alla’s version of realty. Accorind to Alla's supporters, “DAR&E finally removed her from the negligent situation and placed her with Alla McGeary” This statement represents the heart of Alla’s defense and it is not entirely true. The truth is, two volunteers lied to the Board of Directors of DAR&E telling them that Dr. Danoff did not want to adopt Stella, and then these rouge volunteers lied to Dr. Danoff and told her that removing Stella was standard procedure before any adoption. These volunteers lied, out of both ends of their mouths. You can not build a House of Alleged Honor and Integrity on lies.

[katdobemom]

Elaine
Wanda has been vigilant in her attempts to justify the theft of Stella on the many sewer lists she subscribes to.
Of course those lists must truly be the truth, right? NOT!
The reality is Wanda will no doubt attempt to defend her actions and those of Getter and the other band of idiots that felt taking the law into their own hands was the way to go.
None of these folks have ever met Kim, nor Stella till she was stolen.
With so many dogs in rescue why they chose to become so involved suddenly with this situation is a mystery that will never be solved.
Wanda took on the role as our Foster Home coordinator and that time Stella was with Dr Danoff but Wanda never chose to reach out to her. I am sure the reason she didn't is she lasted a NY minute in her role (which was just about 5 days tenure) before I received a hysterical phone call from her saying she just couldn't do it.
I suspect it took Wanda 5 days to realize that there was work involved and she chose to opt out.
Its much easier to sit in front of a computer and spew venom where you dont hafta get down and physical.
That's why Wanda feels so comfortable on those types lists, no doubt.
Wanda had also been vigilant in sending out many many e-mails to our volunteers very early on about how horrendous DAR&E was and ranting about Athy personally. They have a host of petitions, and websites still up regarding the very same. One has to wonder as well with all this nastiness spread to all our adopters and volunteers (they harvested all our adopter info) was it her or her group that chose to send those letters to the shelters telling them not to give DAR&E any dobermans and how poisonous we were? Telling those shelters we starve dogs?
If one shelter listened and chose not to work with us, that's one to many. How many dobes possibly paid with their life? But thats not important right? :mad:
My guess is Wanda will continue to use the sewer lists to justify her actions and the actions of Alla, John etc and the people on those types of lists will think it to be true.
I also wonder if Wanda coming out on these lists may be actual nervousness since the Alla trial isnt far off?
Perhaps she is worried because she knows as a willing participant the law may not bode well for her?
Perhaps she is concerned what Eric found on Alla's computer? My guess is there are probably a few people sweating that bullet at this point regardless of them telling us they don't know anything?

[Elaine]

I agree there is the foul whiff of some other agenda here… and I can see where the DAR&E Board had their hands full. Again and again we see the leadership of DAR&E’s composure and adherence to rules. We admire them for going forward, day in and day out, demonstrating over the years a strong commitment to doing the right thing, for the right reasons. DAR&E acts with integrity and exercises good judgment… overall these are great leadership qualities that are sadly lacking on our society. At some level rescue seems to attract fanatics… something akin to religious zealots, who, for whatever reasons, go over the top. When you add in other personal agendas… and just plain old fashion stupidity, naïveté and a yearning to “be part of the gang” you have a recipe for disaster… and the commission of a felony or two.

Stella should be returned immediately and EVERYONE involved in her theft should be prosecuted... and then held accountable in civil court.

[katdobemom]

Elaine
This whole situation is like a poorly made B movie where all the capers are fun and games until someone gets hurt and in this case it was sadly Kim and Stella. I have witnessed less drama on a advertisement for Jerry Springer.
While it is no doubt entertaining now, for these folks who have made the decision to break the law, how much fun will it be when they are arrested and charged?
And again, just like it was said on this list, "I dont know anything" how far ya think that will fly in a court of law? Not far I would imagine.
Do these folks realize how their actions could have lifelong repercussions or all just part of the fun and games?
I doubt it will be fun for Wanda's son to see her meltdown on the stand come Dec.
She manages to bring him to every hearing or at least has in the past. What kinda education is that for a 12-13 year old to see his mom defending stealing?
Wanda runs a petsitting business in Md area so wonder how her clients would feel if they were aware of her shady dealings with pet theft and the so-called underground railroad. Thats interesting, huh?
DAR&E will continue doing what we do on a daily basis and rescuing as many dobes as possible. 10 years in rescue and over 1200 dobermans is something to be proud of.
So while Wanda and her idiots continue spewing hatred about DAR&E from a chair in front of a computer, DAR&E and its members keep doing what we do.
Trying to save as many dogs as we can.
Lets hope this chapter of Stella and Alla ends in December with a conviction for not only Alla, but those who aided her, ends. Lets all pray it ends with Stella being reunited with her Mommy Kim.

[Elaine]

________________________________________
After reading over the history of this it has become clear to us that DAR&E historically takes the high road and does not respond to all the gossip and misstatements of fact swirling about.

I understand that DAR &E does not wish to roll around in the mud on a gossip rag like CyberDobes, but the down side is that people do not hear the truth or “the other side of the story.” Rather, they hear McNealy’s idiotic spin and gossip, and the self-serving gossip of others involved in or supporting the commission of a felony, and form opinions that are near impossible to change.

For example, with respect to Stella's alleged weight problem, I have heard that Alla McGeary took Stella to her own vet shortly after she first “stole” Stella. Reportedly, Alla's own vet told her that Stella was in good condition and weight. Purportedly Alla was upset that her own vet would not back her up that Stella was too thin and otherwise unhealthy. I believe that DAR&E included a letter from Alla McGeary’s vet about the good health and condition of Stella in their response to the DPCA.. and the DPCA Board ignored Alla’s vet’s letter.

If it is true that Alla’s own vet agreed that Dr. Danoff was taking good care of Stella, then there was absolutely NO justification ever to steal Stella!!! How could the DPCA Board have ever come to any other conclusion?

[Athy]

________________________________________
For example, with respect to Stella's alleged weight problem, I have heard that Alla McGeary took Stella to her own vet shortly after she first “stole” Stella. Reportedly, Alla's own vet told her that Stella was in good condition and weight. Purportedly Alla was upset that her own vet would not back her up that Stella was too thin and otherwise unhealthy. I believe that DAR&E included a letter from Alla McGeary’s vet about the good health and condition of Stella in their response to the DPCA.. and the DPCA Board ignored Alla’s vet’s letter.

This is accurate. When Alla initially took in Stella as a foster, there was no report of poor health, emaciation, etc. After the DAR&E board voted to approve Kim's adoption request, Alla announced on February 9, 2008, that she was not going to return Stella (in spite of her earlier agreement to meet with a DAR&E board member to return Stella to Kim - I don't know who or what changed her mind.) On February 12, 2008 (three days after her public announcement), Alla took Stella to her local veterinarian for a "check up".

According to the written report provided by that veterinarian to DAR&E and Dr Danoff (a scanned copy of which was provided to the DPCA board and Rescue Committee), Stella was "bright and alert and in good flesh. Her body weight was normal for her stature and she was free of intestinal parasites. I also found her coat to be in good condition." In a verbal discussion, the veterinarian commented that Stella was in very good condition and that the quality of her coat could not have resulted from months of deprivation or neglect - she was just too shiny and healthy.

The veterinarian would not support Alla's contention that Stella was starved, mistreated, neglected, et cetera. The letter from the veterinarian was provided to the DPCA.

Not only did DAR&E provide that particular veterinarian's signed letter, we also provided the DPCA with a signed letter from the surgical veterinarian who performed the obstruction surgery that McGeary and Getter claim was abusive. In that case, he absolutely recommended surgery for Stella based on several x-rays that were taken. He performed the surgery and as you all know, no obstruction was found. Because no obstruction was found, Dr Danoff is somehow a negligent owner according to McGeary.

Does that make sense to anyone who owns and loves an animal? Dr Danoff is publicly castigated for following her own veterinarian's recommendation to have surgery rather than wait and see if the blockage might worsen overnight. Getter and McGeary apparently believe that Dr Danoff should have taken a gamble on Stella's life and just "hoped" that it was just gas rather than follow the advice of a surgical veterinarian and x-rays. What world are these characters living in?

I'm not convinced that the rescue committee read either letter. I know they didn't bother to speak to either vet or to the trainer and behaviorist who provided written documentation.

I hope everyone is getting a flavor of what motivated many of the DAR&E board's decisions. We have the fevered rantings of Wanda Minnick, John Getter and Alla McGeary as opposed to written, logical and factual documentation from professional and certified animal caregivers. And the DPCA board and Rescue Committee believe that we didn't follow our own procedures because we took the professional opinions over the opinions of volunteers who were behaving extremely erratically.

Athy Conigliaro

[Elaine]

Not only did DAR&E provide that particular veterinarian's signed letter, we also provided the DPCA with a signed letter from the surgical veterinarian who performed the obstruction surgery that McGeary and Getter claim was abusive. In that case, he absolutely recommended surgery for Stella based on several x-rays that were taken. He performed the surgery and as you all know, no obstruction was found. Because no obstruction was found, Dr Danoff is somehow a negligent owner according to McGeary.

Does that make sense to anyone who owns and loves an animal? Dr Danoff is publicly castigated for following her own veterinarian's recommendation to have surgery rather than wait and see if the blockage might worsen overnight. Getter and McGeary apparently believe that Dr Danoff should have taken a gamble on Stella's life and just "hoped" that it was just gas rather than follow the advice of a surgical veterinarian and x-rays. What world are these characters living in?

I am not an expert about bowel obstructions, but I suspect they are not always as obvious as people assume. I remember a few years back when we suspected that Tungsten had a bowel obstruction. Our regular vet was on vacation. One of his partners examined Tungsten and felt he was fine. He felt that the x-rays indicated that Tungsten had not swallowed anything… he wanted to send Tungsten home. We politely disagreed, insisted that Tungsten was not acting normally and needed to be closely monitored. We thought he needed surgery. Turned out that he had indeed swallowed a sock. His condition deteriorated rapidly. Our regular vet came back from vacation early to surgically remove it. He would have operated earlier had he not been on vacation. The vet who originally assessed that Tungsten was essentially fine was simply wrong. He was not negligent in his diagnoses and we were not abusive in wanting surgery. It was a judgment call and it could have gone either way, but waiting had risks. Maybe the veterinary medical school that Getter and McGeary graduated from taught them differently. Oh wait, neither are medical professionals, so why all this second guessing?

[Athy]

It was a judgment call and it could have gone either way, but waiting had risks.

This is the heart of that particular matter. It is a judgment call. As it turned out, Stella was experiencing gas from chewing up a tennis ball and had not actually eaten any part of the toy.

Getter and McGeary maintain that Dr Danoff is a bad owner because her dog chewed up and swallowed part of a toy. The fact that Dr Danoff promptly sought medical attention and took action compounds her sin against dog ownership. Getter and McGeary also condem Dr Danoff because did not seek immediate approval from the DAR&E board - something that no other foster parent has been required to do. The DAR&E board does expect foster parents to obtain permission for standard health care issues but we understand that sometimes, an emergent situation requires fast action.

Apparently anyone whose dog ingests toys, socks, rubber bands or rocks must be bad owners and their dogs should be stolen from them, according to the Laws of Getter and McGeary.

[Elaine]

God save us from the harsh judgments of the McGeary's and the Getters of the world. I wonder who lives up to the bizarre standards they set. Arthur and I would fail by a wide mile… so would everyone else we know in dogs, but if one of these lunatics ever tried to steal one of our dogs they’d regret it. I suspect most people feel the same. :mad:

Athy, I really hate to even address this, you must be sick of defending yourself when you have done absolutely nothing wrong, but since Wanda raised it as an issue on CyberDobes, could you tell us about the situation with Shadow.

[katdobemom]

[QUOTE=Elaine;3807]God save us from the harsh judgments of the McGeary's and the Getters of the world. I wonder who lives up to the bizarre standards they set. Arthur and I would fail by a wide mile… so would everyone else we know in dogs, but if one of these lunatics ever tried to steal one of our dogs they’d regret it. I suspect most people feel the same. :mad:




Elaine
While Wanda, Getter and Alla can think what they may about how others should and shouldnt care for their dogs, it doesnt warrant dog theft.
While they can have their opinions, and are certainly entitled to their beliefs,
dog theft is a crime. Like it or not for them, it is illegal and I think they are truly missing this aspect of it all.
Wanda can certainly condemn DAR&E, berate and paint Athy as a most horrible person, but it wasnt DAR&E who committed the crime nor Athy Conigliaro.
I think all of us who own dogs, care for ours differently, but it doesnt give me, or anyone else the right to steal a dog or bend over and take if someone were to attempt to steal mine.
The DAR&E leadership and members certainly arent going to curl up and die all because Wanda, Getter and Alla think we should.
The outpouring of donations from our adopters and local community tells us they dont give a rats behind what Wanda thinks?
I do believe that most feel the outrage over this situation and have said so loud and clear thru their support. Financially and emotionally.
I would have thought Wanda would have tired of this situation long ago and taken on a new cause by now, and John as well, but me thinks they are both painted so far in a corner along with Alla there is no turning back.

[Athy]

Athy, I really hate to even address this, you must be sick of defending yourself when you have done absolutely nothing wrong, but since Wanda raised it as an issue on CyberDobes, could you tell us about the situation with Shadow.

Yes, Wanda Minnick has trotted the story of Shadow on several occasions and that "DAR&E" stole a dog. Some years ago, two DAR&E volunteers did indeed remove a dog from an adopter's property. The dog was being left unattended outside for 8-10 hours at a time while the man was at work and had escaped the backyard several times. The DAR&E volunteers were to discuss this situation with him and reclaim the dog. The man wasn't home and apparently the two volunteers saw the dog outside and took her. I fully agree that they should NOT have just taken the dog - as a result of this experience, DAR&E now has formal, written repossession procedures. Contrary to what the DPCA Rescue Committee states, DAR&E does admit to mistakes and we do indeed learn from them.

In response,the man did file a civil lawsuit against DAR&E and did threaten criminal charges against the two DAR&E volunteers who he alleged had gone on to his property. DAR&E has its own corporate attorney and we were prepared to go to court to defend our actions. However, once the man's lawyer spoke to the DAR&E attorney and saw the signed adoption contract with the clauses that his client had committed to, he advised his client to drop the lawsuit and forget about the criminal charges. The man took his lawyer's advice and that was the end of the situation.

I'm sure that Wanda Minnick and her little pals can dredge up all kinds of conflicts and issues between DAR&E and its adopters, its volunteers, applicants we denied and so forth to rationalize anything she likes. I encourage Wanda to form her own rescue group so she can demonstrate to all of us how a perfect organization would exist and would manage hundreds of applications, incoming dogs and placements with nary a conflict in the process.

[Elaine]

...me thinks they are both painted so far in a corner along with Alla there is no turning back.

I thought that too… for a while… but these fanatics actually think what they did is fine and dandy… they don't want to turn back. If they did, they'd return Stella today. That much is clear even from a few posts on this board. Supporters of Alla think they can retreat to a position of self-interest that says, “Hey, I supported Alla for over a year, but I’m now neutral.” Wise people with integrity would have the courage to stand up and say, “I am sorry, what we all did / supported / contributed to was wrong and I will work to make it right.”

I guess that is why I have no sympathy what-so-ever for anyone involved in this. The prosecutor should throw the book at everyone involved… and then people with civil claims should go after those involved as well.

Law abiding citizens in our society have had enough. We need to stand up to crooks and liars and send a strong clear message that: “Stealing is wrong. Stealing Stella was wrong… and we do not buy as justification that it was okay because you are some elderly, delusional, supposedly well-intentioned fanatic or one of her supporters”

It appears me that these people who stole Stella and those that supported, encouraged or contributed to this criminal activity in any manner were fueled by gossip. Some of them acted illegally, even when they were told what they were doing was illegal, even when they were apparently told there was no credible justification for what they were doing. That level of bad judgment needs to be criminally sanctioned for society’s safety. Otherwise every criminal in our society could offer as a defense, “Yep, I committed the crime, I knew it was wrong… I knew there was absolutely no justification for what I did, but a group of us decided breaking the law was okay. We figured the people we harmed would simply back away and forget about us.”

I guess it’s a good thing for Alla and her buddies that gross stupidity isn’t a felony.

[katdobemom]

[QUOTE=Elaine;3819]I thought that too… for a while… but these fanatics actually think what they did is fine and dandy… they don't want to turn back. If they did, they'd return Stella today. That much is clear even from a few posts on this board. Supporters of Alla think they can retreat to a position of self-interest that says, “Hey, I supported Alla for over a year, but I’m now neutral.” Wise people with integrity would have the courage to stand up and say, “I am sorry, what we all did / supported / contributed to was wrong and I will work to make it right.”



Elaine
Its much easier to maintain they were ill informed than actually own up to the fact they participated.
I know one PARTICPANT I saw at many a dog show, but rather than this person try to ask any questions to Athy, myself or any of the other folks from Dare it was much easier to just go on about one's business or perhaps they felt just like with the Q and A's on dareyahoo..... they wouldnt get the answers they were looking for.
This very same person still to this day states on her website that they left DAR&E due to corrupt leadership.
If trying to bring justice to someone who stole a dog is corruption, I guess that would be a true statement. But this very same individual, on this board, stated she would have done the very same had someone tried to steal her own dog. Hmmm........Guess that only works when its you getting the wrong deal, huh?
All this denial of now being neutral aint gonna fly when they are called to the stand and DA has written proof to say differently.
If it were me, and I was wrong, I would be doing ALL to make it right and that would first start with an apology to Kim.
The saddest part of all tho is that the DPCA chose to get involved in this situation from the get go. Whats even more pathetic is the rescue chair for DPCA (Marcia Cowen) stated we should just give Kim another dog and make it all go away. Nice......real nice........

[Ann Lanier]

Stella should be returned immediately and EVERYONE involved in her theft should be prosecuted... and then held accountable in civil court.

The most unconscionable thing is that Stella has another life and another mommy now; she may even have another name, and she won't understand the reason for any of this.

Now another Dober mom, or family, who may not even know Stella's story, may also have a broken heart. Stella probably would be be joyful to see Mommy Kim, but surely she would miss Mommy Now, so in this whole situation, no matter who is 'judicially correct,' inevitably a lot of collateral people are going to be hurt, and sadly, so is the poor innocent dog. For probably half her life she will have been shifted around; instead of one new home, she gets three or four. And possibly her functioning leg has been amputated. How does a dog understand that?

So, in the long run, what's abuse? :(

a