The AVMA's Opposition to Ear Crop and Tail Dock

[Elaine]

The American Veterinary Medical Associations formerly opposes Ear Crops and Tail Docks

http://www.avma.org/issues/policy/animal_welfare/tail_docking.asp

http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/dogs_ear_cropping_bgnd.asp

AVMA policy

Ear Cropping and Tail Docking
(Oversight: AWC; HOD 07/1999, EB revised 11/2008)

The AVMA opposes ear cropping and tail docking of dogs when done solely for cosmetic purposes The AVMA encourages the elimination of ear cropping and tail docking from breed standards.


Can’t say any of us should be surprised by the news that the AVMA is opposed to ear cropping and tail docking… they have been for a long time now… and so is almost every civilized country on earth… and probably John Q. Public in this country as well. Anyone claiming to be blindsided by this news has had their head in the sand.

I once thought I would find a new breed if cropping and docking were banned... but a sweet little Dobeman named Mary has changed my mind. She has a full tail... her ears do not stand all the time... and she is still every bit a Doberman.

I think we need to move forward and accept this, in part because I'd love to be done with cropping and croppers, and in part because we will not win a battle on this topic. The public is against ear cropping, people I know at AKC are against ear cropping (some note that only about 20 breeds are cropped out of roughly 160 recognized breeds, they don't want AKC to be dragged down by the issue, and they are opposed to cropping because they think it is barbaric and cruel)... the AVMA is against ear cropping. This has been coming for years now. Not saying I necessarily like it, but I think we need to move forward and accept it.

[Elaine]

If you go to the AKC's home page.... http://www.akc.org/index.cfm?nav_area=homepage the breed of dog on the cover of the November AKC Gazette is a Giant Schnauzer... who is cropped and docked. (You may have to type Gazette into the search box to see the cover of the November 2008 issue)

I also notice the number of advertisements on the AKC website... supposedly AKC is struggling to find new sources of revenue to make up for lost registration dollars. At this point AKC will take any registration... they need the money. You gotta wonder if AKC’s form of governance has outgrown its Charter (which is to promote and protect the “running “ of purebred dogs).

Last I checked, AKC generates a gross annual revenue in excess of $70 million dollars. Think about the educational background and business credentials of the people running AKC. We have retired handlers and what can best be described as an eclectic group in leadership positions. Seriously, how many of you would consider the average dog handler to be a good steward of a $70 million dollar a year corporation? Consider that Judy Daniels is running for a seat on the AKC Board. Nothing against Ms Daniels, but I wonder how many of the delegates (who vote for the Board) even know that in the early 1990’s Ms. Daniels was the President of AKC, she was fired and purportedly given a $300K severance /retirement package. Now she is running for the AKC Board. With this kind of merry-go-round leadership, is it any wonder AKC struggles and is an ineffective voice to guide us with the issues we face?

[Elaine]

AMERICAN KENNEL CLUB STATEMENT ON AVMA EAR CROPPING AND TAIL DOCKING POLICY

New York, NY (November 21, 2008) -- The American Kennel Club® was advised this week of the AVMA’s newly amended policy on ear cropping and tail docking following its adoption by the AVMA Executive Board at the recommendation of their Committee on Animal Welfare on November 15, 2008.

Historically, the AKC has worked closely with the AVMA to ensure that the rights of individual dog owners, and breed standards, remain protected. However, the AKC was very disappointed to not have been consulted regarding this latest iteration of the policy, despite having been in frequent contact with the AVMA in recent months.

At a joint meeting this Wednesday AKC explained to the AVMA that we recognize ear cropping and tail docking, as prescribed in certain breed standards, are acceptable practices integral to defining and preserving breed character, enhancing good health, and preventing injuries. These breed characteristics are procedures performed to insure the safety of dogs that on a daily basis perform heroic roles with Homeland Security, serve in the U.S. Military and at Police Departments protecting tens of thousands of communities throughout our nation as well as competing in the field.

Mislabeling these procedures as “cosmetic” is a severe mischaracterization that connotes a lack of respect and knowledge of history and the function of purebred dogs. Breed standards are established and maintained by AKC Parent Clubs (each of the 158 AKC registered breeds is stewarded by a breed-specific Parent Club) keeping foremost in mind the welfare of the breed and the function it was bred to perform.

As a not for profit organization that has been devoted to the advancement and welfare of dogs for 125 years, the AKC believes that all dog owners bear a special responsibility to their canine companions to provide proper care and humane treatment at all times and that responsible dog owners, in consultation with their veterinarian, have the right to make decisions regarding appropriate care and treatment of their pets.

AKC’s policy on the issue, which remains unchanged, states:

The American Kennel Club recognizes that ear cropping, tail docking, and dewclaw removal, as described in certain breed standards, are acceptable practices integral to defining and preserving breed character and/or enhancing good health. Appropriate veterinary care should be provided.

Dog owners who would like to contact AVMA directly regarding their policy should direct comments to Gail Golab, head of the AVMA Animal Welfare Division at ggolab@avma.org or 847-925-8070.

[Elaine]

You can almost tell who drafted the AKC's position statement. I'll PM you my guess.

As you can see, the plan seems to be that people (John Q Public) will buy the line that cropping and docking our dogs makes them better guard dogs for the military, police and Homeland security. (The theory being that the public does or should fear a cropped dog. Is this really a direction we want to go, with BSL? Do we really want to hitch our wagon to strategy grounded in the fear of a Doberman, for any reason? Isn't that the very image we've been trying to avoid. Isn't that the very image that aligns us with banned breeds?)

Even at its best, this policy statement seems like a stretch to me. For one thing, between Arthur and I, we have been on military bases all over this country, from McCord AFB in Washington State to Wright Pat in Ohio, to Andrews AFB in Wash D.C., to Pope and Fort Brag, to Seymour Johnson, to Randolph and god knows where else. I’ve never once seen a Doberman, not one. Brenna might know more than I, but I think Belgian Malinois are used most frequently, and they are neither docked or cropped, yet they seem to perform effectively.

As for Min Pins, Miniture Schnauzers, Affenpinschers, Brussels Griffons, Toy Poodles, etc, we're supposed to believe that these breeds need to be cropped and/or docked because of their service in the military, police and Homeland Security. Homeland Security. Do we really want to point out to John Q public that the reason for some crops had to do with dogs used as fighting dogs. Do we want to tie ourselves to the argument that Staffordshire Terriers and American Staffordshire Terrier won’t be as good in the pit as fighting dogs if they have their full ears. Do we expect people to believe that there are health risks for Goldens, Labs, German Sheppard and other breeds that live their lives with the tails god gave them. Does anyone believe that they are in danger of some health risk because their tails weren’t cut off when they were three days old (a procedure typically done without anesthesia). The AKC position is just plain idiotic. Overwhelmingly the AVMA has it right, cropping and docking are cosmetic procedures. The AKC is only an effective voice for us if it is credible in the arguments it advances or supports.

[mosso]

I find it funny that the AVMA is against something it calls "cosmetic" yet quite supportive of the convenient (and more complicated) procedures of spaying and castration.

There are some cases where spaying and castration are in the (immediate) best interest of the dog, but I believe that in most cases, dogs are spayed and castrated for the convenience of the owners.

I support the right of an owner to choose to spay or castrate their dog - they have to live with it, let them decide. But let's not pretend it actually reduces 'unwanted' animals, or is without health risks (like hypothyroidism), like many AR type (and many "pet vets") would have us believe.

So if the AVMA is supportive of the optional, more invasive procedures(spaying or castrating), I have to say this lacks common sense (coming out against docking/cropping - which, righto, isn't actually 'new'), and smacks of AR instigation/encouragement.

Let's talk dewclaws in cats eh?
Stir

[Elaine]

I dislike the idea of bashing a professional group, but frankly, as you point out, it’s difficult to follow the ad-hoc policy decisions of the AVMA and distinguish any credible logic. About the AVMA’s support of castration in the context of other elective procedures they do not support, I agree that their policies are hypocritical. And, I agree the policy on castration is grounded in a naïve and wholesale embracing of the AR slant on the “pet overpopulation crisis” and the AR agenda that we not own or use animals. But there is more… vets are taught how to castrate an animal, it's part of the curriculum and it is a big money maker in a veterinary practice. I've heard that ear cropping is not currently (or widely) taught in vet schools and most vets have been opposed to it for years.

I grew up with cropped breeds (first Danes, then Giant Schnauzers, now Dobes.). I have been around ear croppers for over 40 years. I’ve seen the jobs good vets do, the jobs mediocre vets do, and the jobs that owners and unlicensed croppers do. I am 54 years old. Dr. Patty Edwards was the first vet ever to offer palliative care and actually send the puppies home with pain meds. No other vet ever has. Not one. The public’s aversion to cropping is well grounded on almost every level, Cropping is cosmetic, it is barbaric, it's painful, it’s origins go back to the pitt and the brutal sport of dog fighting. Though I love the look, there is nothing noble about the origins of ear cropping and it does nothing to improve the health of a dog. We crop and dock because we like the look of the cropped and docked dog... end of story. There is no health benefit for the dog, that argument was always baloney. Consider that in the UK it has been illegal to crop and dock for over a decade now. The world did not come to an end in the UK for the breeds that used to be cropped. There was no huge upswing in health problems with uncropped dogs. To suggest otherwise undermines our credibility.

Doberman people know that we are living on borrowed time on this issue. Ear cropping and tail docking will end soon, if not this year, then in a year or so. We will not win another SB1548 fight, in part because of how poorly our "leaders" mangled the aftermath of that "victory" (with the overly dramatic very public resignation supposedly over the discovery that the DPCA president was an illegal ear cropper), and in part because the facts are not on our side.

There are several upsides to the end of cropping and docking:

1. Most all of us are sick and tired of all of this political fighting (and the huge drain of our resources and time). Self aggrandizing political hacks who use important issues in our breed to advance themselves would move on to another breed (yeah).

2. We're all a bit sick of the games in the conformation ring. If we stopped cropping tomorrow, I think it would completely change the power in our breed (and in the Working Group and BIS). It would take a while for most people (including judges) to adjust to the look of an uncropped Doberman. I doubt the uncropped Doberman would be very competitive in the Working Group and BIS. It would fall somewhere behind the Anatolian Sheppard in terms of competitiveness. People involved in the breed because it’s a “big winning” breed would move on to a more competitive breed, and the Doberman ring could revert to a more owner-handled ring, where all this emphasis on the ears and free stacking would diminish, and judges might actually look at the structure of the dog, not at how the handler is pulling the dog together. Overall, the quality of the Doberman might improve if we bred more for structure rather than for a "handlers dream."

3. Sure, the breed would drop in popularity… and sales would fall off, but the upside is that puppy mill type breeders would move on to a more lucrative breed (yeah)… and those of us who simply love the essence of the Doberman breed would remain.

4. To John Q. Public, an uncropped Doberman looks a bit like a cross between a Lab and a Coonhound. Uncropped, the Doberman might actually move off the list of “big scary dogs that threaten communities and must be banned.”

5. Uncropped and undocked, the Doberman actually has a chance to be around in a decade.

[mosso]

I've only worked in two vet clinics (this was over 10 years ago), both which had vets that did ear cropping...some of the owners brought in the dogs for after care (some did it themselves)...there were no bad crops in our clinics, some dogs received pain meds (most didn't seem affected). All cropping was done under anesthesia.

In "dogs", we do LOTS of things for cosmetic preference (we like a dark eye vs a light eye - so we breed for it; some breeds like a flatter face - we we breed for it). If something in a breed standard (cropped ears) is devalued b/c it is labeled "cosmetic", Katie bar the door for the rest to come.

AR groups are busy doing what fanciers/clubs/AKC are also able to do (educate). Yes, the monetary (and time) drain is huge, but we either want or rights or we don't. Conceding will start the avalanche I think. And it's not just the 'leaders' of the AR groups, they are digging into the pockets of people who don't know any better (imo), people who are being 'educated' a certain way. 'Education' isn't static.

Let's talk lack of pain meds after major abdominal surgery - I have seen that FAR more often (spaying). Ditto castration. Poor aftercare? the stories I could tell. The lowest common denominator (sp?) in vet care should not be what drives our legislation (or our breed Standards). Shall we end spaying and castration b/c of lack of proper procedures by some?

:)

Stir

[mosso]

I should clarify - most cropped pups didn't receive pain meds beyond what was given at the clinic, during/post surgery. Many owners (given pain meds) reported the pups had no problem.

(I wonder if lasers are used now for cropping??)

Stir

[Elaine]

AR groups are busy doing what fanciers/clubs/AKC are also able to do (educate). Yes, the monetary (and time) drain is huge, but we either want or rights or we don't. Conceding will start the avalanche I think. And it's not just the 'leaders' of the AR groups, they are digging into the pockets of people who don't know any better (imo), people who are being 'educated' a certain way. 'Education' isn't static.

Stir
I agree... but seems to me the avalanche was unleashed 20 years ago... at this point it's a bit like trying to hold back the oncoming tide.

[andyhilt27]

Brenna might know more than I, but I think Belgian Malinois are used most frequently, and they are neither docked or cropped, yet they seem to perform effectively.



Of course they aren't cropped. Their ears are naturally erect and most herdings breeds retain their tails. They should be docked if used for personal protection if not for saving spilled drinks around the house.

Name one wild dog that does not have naturally erect ears. Floppy ears were done by humans.

Is cropping torture? Does cropping traumatize a dog? Why aren't most cropped dogs vicious or shy for this reason alone?

Am I an asshole because I was circumsized?

[Lou's mom]

Am I an asshole because I was circumsized?


oh, so many quips floating through my brain.... ;)

[andyhilt27]

I slipped that one in under the radar.:D

[doberdogsfd]

Of course they aren't cropped. Their ears are naturally erect and most herdings breeds retain their tails. They should be docked if used for personal protection if not for saving spilled drinks around the house.

Name one wild dog that does not have naturally erect ears. Floppy ears were done by humans.

Is cropping torture? Does cropping traumatize a dog? Why aren't most cropped dogs vicious or shy for this reason alone?

Am I an asshole because I was circumsized?

I am not sure I agree with the logic that we should crop and dock all dogs to save spilled drinks; this is exactly the type of statement that the AR folks thrive on. Not all floppy ears were created by man. The Saluki which is an ancient breed of dog, thousands of years old has floppy ears. According to the Bedouin calling a Saluki a "dog" is an insult to the Saluki. The Bedouin tribes to this day use the Saluki to hunt and feed themselves as well as warn them against intruders. I am sure there are others but the Saluki was top of mind for me.
Even if man bred for floppy ears Mother Nature had to produce them first so that the breeders could continue to reproduce the anomaly.
I personally like the cropped and docked look and think there is some function to it. But we must be honest the length of a show cut has absolutely nothing to do with the Doberman being a working dog. The current show cut is just as dangerous to the dog as if the ears were natural. If one looks at old pictures of the earliest Dobermans the ears were very short to better enable the dog to do its job, personal protection. It really had to do with not giving the attacker anything to grab in order to incapacitate the dog, not hearing.
Now Andy I am not trying to be cross but being a history major and with what I do for a living I like facts.

To answer your last question in the post......No it has nothing to do with you being circumcised......LOL:D Come on man you know you left yourself open for that one and someone had to take the shot!!!:D:D



Bob
~Blackwood~

[andyhilt27]

Even if man bred for floppy ears Mother Nature had to produce them first so that the breeders could continue to reproduce the anomaly.


"mother nature" produced an albino doberman.....nah nevermind. I don't want this thread to go in a direction about evolution, you get the point.

[andyhilt27]

I personally like the cropped and docked look and think there is some function to it. But we must be honest the length of a show cut has absolutely nothing to do with the Doberman being a working dog. The current show cut is just as dangerous to the dog as if the ears were natural. If one looks at old pictures of the earliest Dobermans the ears were very short to better enable the dog to do its job, personal protection. It really had to do with not giving the attacker anything to grab in order to incapacitate the dog, not hearing.
Now Andy I am not trying to be cross but being a history major and with what I do for a living I like facts.

Anyone who has read anything about dobermans obiviously knows that. That has nothing to do with the natural production of erect ears. It occurrs naturally for a purpose not for appearance. A dog that hears better will most likely protect better. In the case of wild dogs this protection is vital to their own lives.

About the Saluki.....I just read a study that supports part of what you say. Although it is one if not the oldest breed it is derived from the wolf. The early Pharoahs could have bred the long and floppy ears for better heat transfer. OR simply for appearance alone. Who knows. But their DNA does not lie.

[bmgillespie]

I am beleiver in to each his own. I think the solution to this problem is simple. Let the AKC ban corppping & docking by saying that a cropped dog cannot be shown in competittion after a established date and early notification. This would not bother me as a Doberman owner. I do not like the AKC politics anyway. However I do have a problem with anyone telling me what to do with my dogs. We all know that Dobermans were a man made dog and he wanted this breed to look like this and I agree. I have mine to be protection & sport dogs. As forthe surgery, I have never had a dog who hadd the slightest problem after the surgery with either. I do agree with the person who said a Doberman would never win another BIS or even have the slightest chance of winning a major competition. They are still great dogs either way but the look is dimished greatly without the crop & dock. To have a chance they would have to hound group.:(

[Elaine]

... I do agree with the person who said a Doberman would never win another BIS or even have the slightest chance of winning a major competition. (

First, I want to welcome you to DSNN Bryant. I think you’ll find that we are an interesting group of opinionated people, who manage to respect each others differences and varying degrees of experience.

About the comment, I think you took things out of context just a bit. There are some facts you need to consider, and some practical considerations.

By the time a judge is able to adjudicate Best In Show (or a Group) he/she has been around quite a while. As a practical matter, this person will have had years, possibly decades, of judging Dobermans as a cropped / docked breed. They are used to seeing a certain picture of what a top winning Doberman looks like, which includes the manner in which a Doberman Special is shown (especially in the Group and BIS) which places a heavy emphasis the dog’s free stack and his /her ability to use their ears. It is an integral part of what our AKC judges expect to see at the top level of competition.

For all intents and purposes, the quality of the ear crop (including a nice clean ear base and an attractive length and shape), is critical to the overall picture of a Special. As an aside, you will almost never see a poorly cropped and or poorly docked dog be competitive, because a poor ear crop and tail docks distract from the overall look of the dog, and because they telegraph to the judge and everyone, “someone, somewhere, connected with this dog, did not know what they were doing.”

IF cropping and docking are banned, it will take judges a good deal of time to re-adjust to the image of an uncropped and undocked Doberman Special. This will likely mean that the breed will be less competitive in the Groups and BIS rings until we all get more accustomed to seeing the Doberman as uncropped and undocked. Additionally, a free stack will project an entirely different image with an uncropped Doberman, who will not be using his ears the way a cropped dog does. That is not to say that an uncropped and undocked Doberman can never win a Group or a Best. Rather, it will take some time.