How Close It Comes

[Kissntell]

You must love your dogs for everyday you have them. You never know what can happen and how fast it can happen.

As I write and dear Macy lays on my warm bed:

We walk twice a day. She will never let me out of that excercise.

However, we walk by many dogs in the neighborhood and she is always walking like a stallion.

Well...there is this very large pit bull in one of the yards we walk by. The other day he decided to just run against the fence and plow under it. He came quietly and had I not noticed from behind...he was in full run for Macy's throat. His owner was there and grabed him by picking him totally up off the ground.

Had I not calculated correctly, and used my knee to throw off his balance as he went for her neck, she would have been gone. It happened that fast. During the night my knee ached for the force he was coming with. He was like a freight train.

This pit bull had never threatened us before. Now when his owner walks him near the alley of my yard he is going for the fence trying to get to Macy. Oh I am so glad I insisted the fence man put in a sturdy sound fence. I learned long ago the importance of a good fence. The owner has control of his dog thank god.

But the owner is a felon and a gang member. He's ok in that I have spoke with him, but you get the drift. There would be no way to even cover what could happen. Brenna knows this so well with what happened to Muse.

Macy was clearly unaware of what was going on. She just sat down beside me insocently. I am so glad of my old horse experience that just came in. I remember using my body to deflect so many times years ago. As in stopping a horse attempting to come through a gate. Throwing off the balance of this dog allowed for the second the guy needed to grab him.

What really surprised me is the quickness that this all happened. It was like..."did that really happen?" Then the realization of what could have been.

This dog is not the typical pit bull. He is built like a work horse and has to be at least 100 lbs. I think the guy has fought him. Which of course makes him even more dangerous.

I have always loved pit bulls until this insodent. Now I take them a bit more seriously. They can do some real harm. He was more powerful against my knee than my old labs I once had. They too are powerful, but this dog was something I have never experienced.

Had it not been for my quick reaction she would have been no more.

We will never walk that way again. Now I have to increase my walk distance to go around that dog's yard. But I just will not chance it.

Thank God we are safe and he was watching over us because I could not take loosing another dog and going back to being dogless. Macy is my only dog.

[Lou's mom]

My heart was in my throat as I read your post -- so scary.

Glad that you are both okay. Smart of you to have made an effort to talk to the pittie owner, whatever his background. Unfortunately, if the dog is being aggressive to/through your fence, the chances of a good long-term outcome are poor.

I had pits as a kid, both in town and out at my grandmothers ranch, where we'd chase rabbits together (me on my pony).

Flash forward in time: I was bitten (inner upper thigh) by a Schutzhund trained pit that I'd known for a few years, travelled with and competed against in agility, and watched the previous night while his owner was out of town. The other pits didn't interprete my jog up the driveway as aggression, only he did, and this after I'd spent the afternoon with him in the company of his owner.

Until that happened I was very sympathetic to the 'bad rap' pitties get. Now, not so much.


ps: a second dober would keep your other side warm in bed, and on the couch, and....

[Elaine]

Chilling. Your quick reaction probably made all the difference in the outcome. If there had been contact, the end of this story would be very different.

As always, it’s the deed and not the breed… but the fact is, when dogs like Chihuahuas, Poodles or Golden Retrievers run amok because of improper socialization (or the expressed training of people like the Michal Vicks of this world), the harm done is minimal. Everyone usually lives to tell about the event. When one of the Bully breeds runs amok (regardless of the reason) bones are crushed, there are permanent scars and living things die. These breeds are unique, and present unique challenges for owners and for society. I never understood the political strategy of aligning ourselves with the bully breeds. I think doing so entangled us owners of non-bully breeds in a fight we can not win. The public is afraid of Pitt Bulls and the Bully breeds and rightly so. There are many many many great Pitt Bull and Bully Breed owners, but sadly, these breeds also seem to attract people who want to exploit the very nature of the dog. Anyone who doesn’t connect to the fundamental difference between an attack by a pit bull type of dog and the aggression of most other breeds has their head in the sand.

[Sheila]

Thank doG you and Macy are okay!!!

Sheila

[Betty]

Kissntell, I'm so glad that you and Macy are OK. It must have been a horrifying experience for you. I am a walker too. For many years we had Labs and my husband didn't like my walking all over town in the evening, even with the Labs (who's afraid of Pooh?). That is how I got my first Dobie... and she is quite a girl... very sweet but very businesslike.. actually people will cross the street when they see her coming (if they only knew!). For years we walked all over town and never worried about a thing. The last couple of years, we have seen more and more Pit Bulls loose on the streets, many appear quite aggressive. Discretion being the better part of valor, we no longer walk freely around the city. I put the girls in the car and drive to an area where I am sure there are no Pits. Now, the irony in this whole thing is, I got the first Dobie to protect ME, now I have to be careful to protect THEM! THe sad truth is no other dog can attack like a Pit Bull; and, no other dog would have a chance if they were attacked by a Pit Bull. Give Macy a big kiss and be thankful that she is still with you.

Betty

[Kissntell]

Thank You all for your kind thoughts.

You know this time I really changed my mind about this breed. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed it. What a powerful breed that in fact can bite once and cause death.

Many years ago, I knew a couple of acquatances that fought pit bulls. I really didn't know them but had contact of them. It was a "secret" society of which values dogs so differently than us. They use to tell me things of which I didn't believe. They knew that I was against their dealings so I thought they were just telling me tales to scare me perhaps.

This offending pit bull's son's mom told me how that same dog's tolerance levels for other dogs passing by was getting to be of threat level. I thought it was just like any other dog. But it was NOT. Now it reminds me of the stories I had heard in the past.

As I was told:

In an odd way, pit bulls are big on pride, and thus, "quit pissing me off when you walk by" attitude. And, "don't you dare piss in front of me." Which makes them even madder. (Maybe they are trained or teased this way.) Thinking back, Macy had done this along the road in front of his house a few times ago. I thought nothing of it. But the dog grew madder and madder about this. I now know.

The pit bull fighting community told me that some dogs they had, had so much "pride" that you could not watch them when they went to the bathroom. If you did you were at risk. Odd sounding, I never thought it could be true.

I remember going over to their house and on the wall were two cattle prods. They said that if dogs got into a jaw lock they had to shock them out. Yet they also said that often didn't work and instead you had to be strong enough to put a choke hold on them. The only way to get them to release was to stop the flow of blood to the brain and thus they pass out and release.

Only men really get into this sport because its too much power for a woman to handle I think.

The reason that I knew of these people is that I knew of a woman who took in the pit bulls for the rescue. So she was in contact with them. An odd situation in that she rescued them rather than have them injured more. She said if you told on them, you would never be able to help the dogs. They would just go to another area and do their stuff. Which was her thinking, not necessairly mine. Most of the dogs she took were the ones that were not "game." Those are the dogs that just wouldn't fight.

What a sickening thing people do with dogs. I hope that I haven't offended anyone for sharing this knowledge I learned long ago. It just shocked me because I never believed what I heard. Now I do believe, and; I wanted to share it with others too; because, now it makes sense.

I really was walking around in denial until I experienced this. I never would have believed it had I not just went though this. I guess I was naive and in denial.

I too have found the neighborhood to be riddled with pitt bulls and other noctocious (sp) dogs. The real problem is that most people do not know how to handle these types of dogs and really shouldn't have them. If I could handle a base ball bat with a dog too, I think I would take one with me. Dogs are often loose because people don't see the need for a good fence.

When I first got Macy I use to take her to walk at the lake. But then there was a giant schnauzer (sp) of which the guy thought it was just fine to allow him to jump on Macy. She was little and he was huge. She screamed in fear and I didn't want a bad experience for her. The Lake walks also made her now terrible to go anywhere in the car. She goes nutts thinking she's going for fun. This makes it a real chore now to go to a show.

I don't know what the answer is. I would like to find a safe place to walk her. She will not allow you to not walk her and becomes a blazing idiot at time for the walk. I am now walking in areas that are not easy to walk. They are up hills, down hills and longer distance which bothers my old knees.

I think that should this pitt bull have any more threats I should call the animal reg folks. But, there is nothing they can or will do when the dog is found in his yard.

This actually is the finest pitt bull I have ever seen. The guy paid $1500.00 for him and I believe it. His mom said he is registered but I don't know of which registry. He was recently nueterd but only of course because he was dripping blood via enlarged prostrate. I think he's only about 2 years old. The guy had wanted to have puppies from him. But thank god the dog will not produce now. Of course that is the temperment that the fighters want.

You know its an odd thing how things change in the dog world. I remember when the DPCA did not want in any way to be classified with the vicious dogs. But now, I see where to keep the breed, they believe that we should be encouraged to breed for the dog's old protection values, and for "homeland security." In the past the DPCA had voted to take away the sport of shutzhund. Now its back.

I have seen dogs kept on military bases. They are the real working dogs. They are usually Belgin Malunas (sp) and GSD's. But they are never kept in an enviornment of which I would really like a dog. I use to know some of the police folks that worked and trained dogs. They, at that time, did not allow the officers to take the dogs home. I asked why, and they said the dog could not be used both ways. A house dog becomes a pet and a working dog will not work as a pet. So the house dog learns that pets or petting comes for free. The working dog has to work for the pleasure of a pet. That's the difference.

I hope no one thinks that I am associated with the fighting pitt bull world.

But I know that the world we live in is filled with people who see things different.

Its sort of like the horse racing world. They should not be running the horses at age two. But they are and they will. Its seems its all about money in so many things.

[Elaine]

Thank You all for your kind thoughts.
...

You know its an odd thing how things change in the dog world. I remember when the DPCA did not want in any way to be classified with the vicious dogs. But now, I see where to keep the breed, they believe that we should be encouraged to breed for the dog's old protection values, and for "homeland security." In the past the DPCA had voted to take away the sport of shutzhund. Now its back.

I have seen dogs kept on military bases. They are the real working dogs. They are usually Belgin Malunas (sp) and GSD's. But they are never kept in an enviornment of which I would really like a dog.

...







I think the DPCA’s current policy shift is a huge mistake… undoing years of breeder’s efforts and public education to portray our breed as stable, loving companion dogs who will defend only when necessary. I think our breed is better served portraying the Doberman as a service dog (like Tungsten and Moose)… which is a role Dobermans excel at, rather than as a military attack dog, which is a horror anyway you look at it. The image of the vicious cropped docked Doberman is one we need to move away from. For bizarre reasons, in 2008 a few members of the DPCA, many of whom do not breed and are not actively involved in marketing our breed to the public, have decided to embrace an image of our breed from decades ago.

We are in the military. Dobermans are not used at any military base we have ever been at. In our experience Malinois are used, along with some GSDs. But the ignorant powers at the DPCA don’t seem to know or care. They just lurch forward with this rash new strategy, aligning our breed with an outdated image, based on the destructive perception that people should fear a cropped docked Doberman, taking the breed I love down a very wrong path, undoing years of good work and image building… all because of some ill-conceived agenda of the moment. I have watched some of these leaders for almost 20 years now, observing one ill-advised public strategy after another. I often question the leadership of the DPCA, but never more so than at this moment.

What we are seeing in 2008 is a DPCA that works actively to portray our breed as inherently unhealthy, requiring hundreds even thousands of dollars of annual heath testing, none of which will aid a breeder to avoid transmission of health disorders like DCM. We see effort and money going no where, producing nothing of value to a breeder trying to produce a healthy Doberman. We have DPCA policy makers who are not breeders. When leaders have no stake in the policies they generate, we get the chaos we are seeing now. Any breeder defending any pedigree in Dobermans now must face a mountain of baloney generated by DPCA members with private agendas (be it political ambition or profit), portraying our breed as inherently dangerous and unhealthy. It is to the point where DPCA leaders have described the mere breeding of Dobermans as essentially the creation of a vicious defective product. Who needs PETA when we have the DPCA shooting us in the foot. And now we have a DPCA strategy to drag out an outdated and inaccurate image of our breed as a cropped docked fearsome vicious creature… at a time when communities all around this country want to ban such an animal.

[Athy]

Now, the irony in this whole thing is, I got the first Dobie to protect ME, now I have to be careful to protect THEM!
Betty

Hi, Betty, you might want to think about carrying a portable air horn. You can buy them at the Wal-mart online (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10086726).

I have my own personal air horn (I use them when we're introducing new foster dogs in the house) plus DAR&E has a couple that we use at our various dog events. I don't think I've ever used it at its highest volume or for much longer than a little "toot" but it is enough to stop everyone in their tracks for a couple seconds, which can give you a few seconds of time to react.

We've used water blasters and water hoses in the past but we've found the air horn to be much more effective in breaking up fights. Would it stop a pit bull? Maybe not once contact is made but it might slow him/her down if he got one of those blasts in his ear. Just food for thought.

Athy

[Betty]

Hi, Betty, you might want to think about carrying a portable air horn. You can buy them at the Wal-mart online ([url]http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=6[/u
Athy[/QUOTE]

Thanks Athy, I'll order one today!

Betty

[doberdogsfd]

Citronella works well also for breaking up a potential issue between dogs. No hands on and it is not harmful. I have used it before when socializing clients dogs. I do like the air horn Athy...thanks for that suggestion.

As for Dobermans for guard work. They typically are not dependable and that is at the basis of why the PDs and Military got away from working a Doberman.

NOW before anyone gets their knickers in a knot, when I say dependable what I mean is, they are REALLY bad weather dogs. What one of my mentors in the training world called " The Spring/ Fall Dog" . They hate the cold, rain, hot.....happiest in the Spring and the Fall. I had an officer tell me a some years ago that his Dobe wouldn't get out of the vehicle when it was raining...LOL! Kind of sounds like my guys :-).

So, when one is working a dog, this doesn't really bode well. The dog needs to function with no gliches at anytime. A dobe makes lovely personal protection dog, happy to be with his humans and protect his home. Loyal to the end as each of you knows. I agree they do not do well for Civil Work and should NOT be pushed in that direction....again.

I do work dogs. I love the Sport and have done it since I was 14 yrs old. To me the optimal dog for bite work is a Mal. I love the speed, their intensity and their intellience to think and solve problems. French Ring Sport ( or Ring Sport as it is called now) is taylor made for the breed. I started with two imported GSDs......my family brought their dogs from the homeland and all of us were involved with the breed.
I prefer the GSD form Europe, again they are exceptional for any type of bite work.

Cheryl

[Athy]

I find the new position interesting too, especially in light of the fact that a DPCA member was recently reprimanded and publicly pilloried on the sewer because a Dobe that he'd bred or co-owned or something was used in a soap opera. The actor's role was intended to be that of a protector - growling at some little hussie girl moving in on the Dobe owner's man... And of course, the growling was so obviously dubbed and the acting in general was so over the top it was hard for me to take any of it seriously.

I apparently don't know the full story behind it and could be absolutely wrong in my gut reaction but I was a little surprised at the fact that a DPCA member would be formally reprimanded for presenting a Doberman as a protector of house and home :confused:

Is there more to the story than I know? There must be.....

Athy

[Spartan]

Although I agree the incident that started this thread is one that would make us all step back and breathe a sigh of relief, I do not think it is wise to cast negativity on any breed. I do agree that the Bully Breeds are very powerful dogs and that they must be in the correct hands or they can be dangerous. But to say that Pit bulls in general are bad, or that the bully breeds are worse than any other breed is a slippery slope. The way I see it is once we decide they are a Menace, or noxious where does it stop? At one time there was an outcry against GSD's and Doberman's. Hell as one post said people cross the street when they see a Doberman.

At work people come into my office and see pictures of the "kids" and have some silly question or comment about the breed we love. I get asked are they friendly? To which I reply no they are vicious can't you tell by the way Emma is licking my face in that picture, she is tenderizing me so she can eat me in my sleep. That is usually followed up by don't be an ass and one or two expletives. Then they see Vaako or Flex lying upside down in Cheryl's lap and say wow they are affectionate. Then all the "old wives tale" questions start. Isn't it true that they turn on you because their brains grow too large for their skulls? I say usually they turn on me so they can get more comfortable and lay more of their bodies on me. No their brains don't outgrow their skulls...do you think Mother Nature is a fool? Then there is the when I was a kid there was this Doberman in the neighborhood that would sit in the yard and watch us as we walked home. We would stare at him waiting for him to chase us, then one day he did. So I reply..Let me get this straight you stared at him for about 2 blocks then started to run, did you run first or did the dog? I ran first is the reply. I say then the dog chased? Yes! Well if you had not run the dog would not have chased you. If it was a lab chasing you would you have been scared. No there was a Lab that chased us all the time he did not look scary, but he bit my friend. Did the Doberman ever bite anyone? No. Here is a lesson in dogs don't eye stare them and don't start running if you don't want to be chased. If you stared at me for 2 blocks and ran I would probably have something to say to you as well. The dog just doesn't speak English so he barked and told you to stop being an ASS!

People come to the house and then leave telling stories of how they were at our house and not one of the 5 Dobermans even jumped on them. They talk about how they played ball with Deca when she was alive, or threw the Frisbee for Emma. How Flex played tug with them and how strong he was when he was alive. One of my friends said I heard they don't like black people (he is Black) are they gonna be o.k. with me. I said well you can ask them, but all 5 of them are black so they might not understand what you are saying. Plus Cheryl and I are not racists so why would our dogs be? Again don't be an ass usually follows.

Why am I droning on? I guess because human nature is to fear what we do not understand and to stereotype which is dangerous. Once the victory is had with the Bully Breeds it will not stop until the only choice for a dog is a lab, a Labradoodle or some other non-threatening breed. Being a victim of stereotypes often I can tell it is a load of Crap! I am 6'5 and over 300lbs. I wear a high and tight flat top and a Vandyke (goatee). Most people who meet initially are nervous because I am "a mountain of a man". "The biggest man they have ever seen". My favorite "when I first met you I was scared but you are really a nice guy, not as scary as I thought. Although you look like you could break me in two, you are really a nice guy". Trying to convince me or them? I really don't care. Genetics made me this way, I cannot change it and anyone who has issues with it well has issues they need to deal with, it really is not my problem.

With our breed there are as many stereotypes as with the Pit bull they are just not on the news, I guess we can thank all the idiots who have drawn the attention to the Pit bull for that. A dog is a dog, how it is raised and cared for dictates its behavior. Just like most kids. Pits are strong, compared to a Rotty, Neo, Kuvazs they are not so strong. Having been in a bite sleeve and been hit by a 70 Mal and a 100lb GSD as well as an 85lb Dobie I can tell you when they hit there is little difference. Pits just happen to be in the wrong hands all too often. I have a friend with 4 babies two sets of twins about 2 years a part who has 2 Pit Bulls, his kids hang on them pull ears etc. and where shirts proclaiming their love for Pit Bulls. Mike Vick was an idiot, but the dogs he had were all placed in families with other dogs and kids after some great work from a rescue group from California. Two or Three had to be put down, one for health reasons and one had just been in too many fights and had lost all trust in humans. The video of them cowering when a human came near would break your heart. Funny how these vicious creatures turned out to be loving family companions. You can watch the hour long show on Animal Planet (bring tissues seriously bring tissues).

Again I believe it is only a matter of time before the attention is brought back to our breed once the "EVIL" Pit bull is vanquished! Someone should tell Rachel Ray to get rid of Isaboo and stop making the dog food she invented for her. It is called Nutrish...all proceeded go to animal rescue!

Bob

[Betty]

Bob, I agree with you that Pit Bulls are no more likely to attack humans than many other breeds. Just look at the recent bite statistics... there are several breeds ahead of them on the list. The thing here is this.. and I can speak from experience having had a few AmStaffs in my life... many of them are extremely dog aggressive. THey are extremely quick, they have large and powerful jaws and when they attack another dog, it is usually from below. They also are very tenacious. A leggy dog like a Doberman would never have a chance against one. Of course, they have wonderful qualities too. They usually love their families and are very protective of them. They are a large responsibilty to own and responsible ownership is key.. unfortuneately they often fall into the wrong hands and are allowed to run loose to terrorize others and therein lies the problem.

Betty

[Kissntell]

I agree this particular dog is not people aggressive but is dog aggressive. The woman had told me he went after a loose unaltered Jack Russell mix. That dog too is a neusance.

What I see happening is that every "gang member" (and in my neighborhood there are many of them) has a Pitt Bull. I think this dog is a dog that needs to have time spent with them in training walking regularily etc. I see them maybe once every two weeks walking them. And, I wonder if its really so the owner can look "buff."

What I am also concerned of is this:

Pitt Bulls in my neighborhood go for little in price. One guy was trying to sell me a puppy for $25.00. Another guy told me he bought his at the swap meat for $125.00. So maybe the price brings in an issue too.

Its a hard game for me to play. I use to live in a upper class neighborhood and had animal control always knocking at my door with their stupid ordinances. Those neighborhoods are not dog friendly. (As in the only two dogs allowed ordinance.) They literally drove me out of town. This neighborhood, though they too have ordinances, usually doesn't enforce them because everybody has "vicious" or rough dogs and more than two.

I think the undercurrent of this mess is that cities have created "ordinances" limiting many things you can do with dogs. Its real hard to be in the sport of pure bred dogs show etc and have only two. Many people are presently avoiding this issue by trying to stay quiet and not being caught. This is really true for the handlers.

[Elaine]

I agree that the Bully breeds are wonderful companion animals… warm, fun loving clowns… in the right hands. In the wrong hands they can be a menace to us all. And in any circumstance, they require owners with a heightened awareness of the characteristics of the breed and its original purpose. I guess this all gets down to acting responsibly. We live in a society where “doing whatever you please in the moment” is the rule of the day… and all sorts of chaos ensues. We simply can not legislate away irresponsible behavior and trying to do so imposes horrible restrictive burdens on those of us who act responsibly. Personally, I am tired of picking up the pieces after irresponsible people. And I am very tired of fighting about what should be simple things, like my choice of breed of dog. I’d love to find a community of intelligent, well-educated, civilized people, who act responsibly and respect each other. Maybe on the moon… :p

[Patty Storkel]

I also have had one of those narrow misses- but it was three black labs that came up a hill at full charge against me and my Eilish, a small 125 lb irish wolfhound. We were in a beautiful state park with signs everywhere stating dogs had to be on leash. I was on a little hill overlooking Crane Prairie Lake, where my husband and fellow campers had gone boating. I was looking to see if i could see them returning to the dock. What i did see was this couple with three labs in their boat. I didn't see any leashes as they made their preparations to disembark. They were probably the equivalent of a city block away, but close enough still that i could see no leashes, and in fact only one dog had a collar on! Well, the lead dog spotted us and immediately let out a bark. One of them began the charge up the hill, and then the other two fell in behind, growling as they came. Now i had been talking dogs with this lovely elderly couple who blanched as they saw this trio of snarling dogs coming at us, and they began to quickly distance themselves from me. I had Eilish on lead, but began to wonder if i should let her off or what?? Three against one?? A zillion thoughts were going thru my mind as i was trying to decide what to do, i didn't want eilish to get hurt, especially as we were showing her at the time, but i didn't see any source of help or protection. Imagine my surprise when Eilish reared up on her hind legs, pawing the air with her front paws like a stallion, and let out a wolfhound ROAR!! I had never heard that sound before and i almost wet my pants. The hair stood up on the back of my neck and i began to pray as i saw the labs getting closer. I could hear their teeth gnashing together, and their huffing and puffing. All this is happening in seconds, but for me, it was an eternity. Imagine my surprise when the first and biggest (at least 100 lbs) got to within 10 feet and i could see the lightbulb click on in his eyes. You could almost hear him say "OH S***"!!, as he immediately bagan backpeadaling to stop and get out of the way. He had recognised he was facing down a much larger dog than himself. The other two labs actually plowed into him, knocking them all off balance. I discovered i was still holding Eilish's leash. And as all this was transpiring, the two owners had been yelling and screaming at their dogs while they followed them up the hill, STILL with no leashes!! They got to their dogs just as the first lab stopped. The lady had the nerve to glare at me and mumble something about vicious dogs... My mouth fell open, and i was at a loss for words!! I had to sit down and steady myself before i could walk back to our camp site as my heart was pounding so and my hands and knees were shaking. I didn't see them again for the rest of the weekend. But then again, lucky for me it wasn't three pitbulls!:eek:

[doberdogsfd]

Agreed Elaine.....it would be nice to think people were actually responsible for for themselves and their dogs. Their lack of responsability fast becomes our issue.

Pits and AmStaffs are great dogs in the right hands and they are what they are, dog aggressive. Unfortunetly too many issues arise like with Macy and her daily walk.

The concern comes when we start to legislate and control breed choices.
There are cities on the East Coast that have done just that and outlawed owning a Pit Bull within the city limits. It was the only way to get a handle on the gang activity with dog fighting.
Dover Delaware is kicking around a law that specific breeds must be muzzled when out of the confinement of their yard. The list includes our beloved breed , the Doberman. How very nice, huh? Clearly not the answer.

Cheryl

[Kissntell]

Thanks Cheryl and Patty too. This is really a problem. They can legislate all they want and people still don't obey or follow those rules.

I use to do rescues. I rescued Labs in that my children were young and I thought that breed was safe. What I found is that breed was more unstable then I thought. Labs are nice dogs. Maybe I was dealing with the results of the abuse. But I took the placement in that the story was the dog came from a family of 5 kids that couldn't take her with them on a cross country move. Let me tell you that Lab would bite anyone. People would judge the breed and come up to pet her and she would not tolerate it. She bit my son through his cheek. So I had to return her. Too much liability.

I find that most people really don't know enough about dogs to own them. I have seen this almost everywhere I go with the lay public. So then the ordinances come up to force issues; but, the people they are really made for ignore them.

[doberdogsfd]

The average person shouldn't have anything beyond a Goldfish in my opinion!

Cheryl