Bloat - Info on Symptoms and Treatment

[Elaine]

Many of you already know, Quincy bloated last night… E2 caught it in time (thank god). Tom and E2 raced him to the vets, he’s had the surgery… it was touch and go there for a while… but this morning he is stable… Tom is at work, E2 needs some sleep… last I checked, Alme' hasn't even gotten out of bed this morning :D:rolleyes: so at least she's handling things well.

At some future point E2 will come on DSNN and explain what was going on with Q and the subtle signs she picked up on... that led to taking Q in to the vets on a Sunday evening. As we all know, we need to be involved with loved ones every minute of every day. Bad things can happen in an instant... it makes a profound difference that we are actively involved... a moment here and there can change lives.


http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Q-2007-03-10-6193-lg-1.jpg

[pretty dobe]

All the best with Quincy....Lot's of prayers from this house.

This topic is so needed. I have friends that have lost their dobes in the past couple of months. None had ever experienced this before. Our club passed some information to us from Purdue but think it was old information.

Talked with some breeders at our shows the past 5 days and they were giving information to us about not exercising after eating. One puts her dogs in crates for 2 hours after eating. She said she is paranoid with the thought of bloat.

E2 is lucky and we are glad....

Judie

[Elaine2]

Thank you everyone for your prayers and good thoughts. So far they are working for Quincy
As of late last night Quincy was resting and the vets were pleased that his heart had shown no VPC's. Apparently that is the biggest worry after this happens to them. We are very lucky this time.
They will start to wean him off of the IV drip and pain meds today and monitor as they go.
If his heart remains stable he will be able to come home, but because of Alme still coming out of heat we do not need to put him in that stressful situation again and they have agreed to then show him as a boarder for a day or two. It was this stress that brought this upon the poor boy. I suppose the stress builds up the gases when they eat. I don't really know.

I will detail each sign that alerted me later on but for today I have to deal with a very ill cat who may have to be pts. I am awaiting that phone call of his test results today. Not sure I can handle much more this week.

Thanks again
E2

[Elaine2]

This is long, sorry.
As per Dr Goodrow Quincy is much better. He is on antibiotics as infection is a real concern as he is healing.

His incision has seroma (sp?) which is some fluid on the incision and is normal.

His heart is very good. She is very pleased about this. It has been bang on since the surgery.

He is showing more energy and gets excited to go outside to pee, but she realizes he is not yet at his full potential.

Apparently he is not eating his food out of the bowl but will eat it if hand fed. I assured her this does not mean he does not feel well. He is milking the attention and playing with them. :rolleyes: So she is going to call him Prince Quincy now.

He has not had a BM yet but she expected that to happen by tonight as he has had a little food.

Oh, and she feels bad because he scraped the top of his nose trying to stick it through the kennel bars. (Almé did this too so the Furazone is on the counter already)



I would prefer they board him until day 10 but she is concerned that they are not manned all the time for 1 ½ days on the weekend and what if out of boredom he goes after the incision etc. (he has yet to do that..huge surprise to us). They would have someone come in twice a day to feed and pee him and of course we would pay for that time. Tom said what would that matter at this point? :rolleyes:

Dr Goodrow said if she didn’t have 4 dogs at home she would take him for me. They think he is pretty special and sweet.

She and I will discuss again tomorrow and Saturday morning. If we pick him up it will be Noon on Saturday. She said a goodly amount of healing has happened by days 7-10. Sunday night is 7 days.



Before I bring him home I would like to give him something to slow him down as he is such high energy. He must stay quiet, no jumping, no stairs etc and we all know what he can be like. Just a fun loving energetic guy and loves to play with Almé.



He cannot go on a prescribed relaxant because the GI track needs to keep moving all of the bad out of his system and prescribed drugs will slow the transit time.



So we discussed various natural relaxants such as St John’s Wart, Bach’s Rescue Remedy and Melatonin.



She does not know anything about St John’s wart.

Melatonin could be used but she said it does not work for every dog.

Rescue Remedy is what she would use. She uses it on her dogs if there is fear of thunder, fireworks etc and it usually works. I have some at home but it is not the alcohol free one and she said that is OK because it can be put on his tongue instead of his water or food. When put on his tongue it is absorbed into his system in a safe way and it works faster this way too.



She said he is healing well enough that she will remove his staples next Wed at 10 days instead of 14 days.



So this is all I know for now, other than by Saturday Almé is at least 21 days so is out of heat. If push comes to shove Almé could be boarded but I really prefer not to do that to her again.



Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts and prayers, suggestions, phone calls etc. It has been a huge help to us.



Tom and Elaine

[Elaine]

Obviously we would all like to avoid going through what Quincy, Tom and E2 have endured this past week. Untreated, bloat can kill a dog, and it is a very painful way to die. The emotional, physical and financial impact of bloat is considerable for all involved. Q is very fortunate to be owned and loved by E2 and Tom. They are totally committed to him and his well being. DSNN would like to do all that is possible to see that no one else goes through this experience… so we would like to share what we know, limited though that may be:

According to the Great Dane Club of America, Great Danes are the breed most likely to bloat, but many other breeds, including Dobermans, can do so as well. For example, my sister had an Irish Wolfhound who died of bloat back in the late 1970's. And many of you know that the lovely Doberman bitch, the 1989 Westminster BIS Ch. Royal Tudor’s Wild As The Wind, a.k.a. Indy, bloated a day or so before the Garden show and was in an emergency room something like 48 hours before going in the ring at the Garden.

So, those of us who own breeds that are susceptible to bloat should know the signs of bloat; we should have a bloat kit available at all times; and, we should have GasX or Phazyme at all times (the important active ingredient to look for is simethicone).

Here is some information about bloat from the Great Dane Club of America http://www.gdca.org/ here specifically http://www.gdca.org/healthandwelfare.htm

Here is a link to Nature's Farmacy, a company that sells bloat kits. http://www.naturesfarmacy.com/store/results.php?category=9 We should have one and know how to use it.

Here is some data about Phazyme (which may be superior to GasX because it has more simethicone http://www.phazyme.com/about.aspx Quoting from the website, "Phazyme contains simethicone, the only active ingredient available without a prescription that's FDA-approved for the treatment of gas. Simethicone essentially pops the gas bubbles that get trapped in the stomach and intestine, relieving the pressure, bloating and discomfort this excess gas can cause."

Apparently a male, who is a fussy eater… is stereotypically the most likely to bloat. Anecdotal wisdom says that dogs who may bloat should eat frequent small meals rather than one large meal. They should be kept calm before and after they are fed (no heavy exercise immediately before or after feeding). And their food should be thoroughly soaked before being fed. There was a theory that the dog should be fed at chest height, I think they have found doing so irrelevant to bloat.

If you are at an AKC show, and your dog is bloating and you do not have GasX or a tube… it is likely (or this used to be true) that a Great Dane person will have both.

Here are symptons to look for:

Symptoms

Typical symptoms often include some (but not necessarily all) of the following, according to the links below. Unfortunately, from the onset of the first ymptoms you have very little time (sometimes minutes, sometimes hours) to get immediate medical attention for your dog. Know your dog and know when it's not acting right.

Attempts to vomit (usually unsuccessful); may occur every 5-30 minutes This seems to be one of the most common symptoms & has been referred to as the "hallmark symptom." "Unsuccessful vomiting" means either nothing comes up or possibly just foam and/or mucous comes up.

Doesn't act like usual self. Perhaps the earliest warning sign and may be the only sign that almost always occurs We've had several reports that dogs who bloated asked to go outside in the middle of the night. If this is combined with frequent attempts to vomit, and if your dog doesn't typically ask to go outside in the middle of the night, bloat is a very real possibility.

Significant anxiety and restlessness. One of the earliest warning signs and seems fairly typical. "Hunched up" or "roached up" appearance. This seems to occur fairly frequently.

Lack of normal gurgling and digestive sounds in the tummy. Many dog owners report this after putting their ear to their dog's tummy. If your dog shows any bloat symptoms, you may want to try this immediately.

Bloated abdomen that may feel tight (like a drum)

Despite the term "bloat," many times this symptom never occurs or is not apparent.

Pale or off-color gums
Dark red in early stages, white or blue in later stages
Coughing
Unproductive gagging
Heavy salivating or drooling
Foamy mucous around the lips, or vomiting foamy mucous
Unproductive attempts to defecate
Whining
Pacing
Licking the air
Seeking a hiding place
Looking at their side or other evidence of abdominal pain or discomfort
May refuse to lie down or even sit down
May stand spread-legged
May curl up in a ball or go into a praying or crouched position
May attempt to eat small stones and twigs
Drinking excessively
Heavy or rapid panting
Shallow breathing
Cold mouth membranes
Apparent weakness; unable to stand or has a spread-legged stance

Especially in advanced stage
Accelerated heartbeat
Heart rate increases as bloating progresses
Weak pulse
Collapse

Here are some links for more information:

http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm

http://www.dogsymptomscure.com/dog-bloat-symptoms.php

[Elaine2]

Q is a picky eater and was not eating much with the stress of Alme' being in heat.
He was VERY stressed out. I finally held his soaked food up to him that night and he ate a little. Maybe one cup at most.
About 1 hour later he quietly laid at my feet. The quiet was a rarity on Sunday.
He suddenly got up and went behind the recliner, head down, back roached up. I coaxed him out and he tried to vomit, so I put him outside and he ran around trying unsuccessfully to vomit. He did poop a wee bit.
He came back in and sat against a piece of furniture, straight up and legs spread out. Not a Dobe sit.
He followed me into the kitchen and sat the same way and then crouched trying to vomit.
I let him out and he kept trying to vomit, this time barking, crying, screaming all at the same time. Then he would run into the garden and lay down looking scared. By now I was calling the vet and got Tom out there with him.
The vet asked if his sides were bloated out and they were not at that point yet, but we pretty much suspected he was bloating, so I called the Emergency clinic to ensure they were able to deal with bloat and they said yes and they would be ready for us.
When I was walking Q to the car he was dragging his feet tucked under. The vet said that reflected the pain he was in.
By the time we got to emergency his sides were bloated out, his eyes looked blue and he was quiet and scared. He also had an odour about him that was very pungent.
They took an xray right away and it was totally black. Apparently that was not good. His heart rate was 200 from the stress and perhaps the shock, but they had to operate.
10 minutes later they were kicking us out so they could operate.
The surgeon was surprised his stomach was still pink and his spleen was perfect. He had torsioned.
She untwisted him and proceeded to tuck his stomach too, which hopefully will protect him a bit, but no guarantees.
I will have Phazyme or Gas-X and a bloat kit available at all times from here on in.
E1 is right about the cost being pretty hefty, but it's for our beloved 4 legged family and you do what is necessary to keep them with you and worry about it later.
In summary I had no idea what bloat would look like even though I was always wary about it. The bottom line is what E1 said, you know your dog and when they are totally out of character there is something wrong.
E2

[Athy]

Interesting timing, we had a discussion about bloat at our last club meeting. Lyn sent us the following information, a new bloat study from Purdue.

NEW Purdue Bloat Study

Recent studies are shedding more light on gastric dilatation volvulus (GDV), otherwise known as bloat. GDV is the second leading cause of death in large-breed (50 – 99 pounds) and giant-breed (100 pounds and over) dogs. Approximately one in four large-breed dogs and one in five giant-breed dogs may develop GDV during their lifetime, with some breeds at even higher lifetime risk. GDV strikes suddenly and has a mortality rate as high as 30 percent.

In GDV there is a rapid accumulation of air in the stomach, causing distention and often rotation of the stomach, cutting off blood supply at both ends and causing the dog to go into shock. GDV is an acute emergency and rushing the dog to immediate veterinary care is essential. The risk of a dog eveloping GDV increases with age. Other factors that increase a dog's risk are having a first-genera tion relative with a history of GDV, having a deep and narrow chest or abdomen, being thin, experiencing a major health problem before age 1, and having a fearful or nervous temperament.

Research primarily at Purdue University by Dr. Larry Glickman, VMD, Ph.D, (an AKC Excellence in Canine Research Award winner), and Dr. Malathi Raghavan, DVM, Ph.D. has identified a number of feeding management and dietary factors that increase the risk of GDV. These include:

eating only one meal a day;
feeding only dry dog food;
feeding food with only small particles,
and feeding a large volume of food per meal.

Other feeding factors found to increase the risk of GDV were eating rapidly, increased physical activity before and eating, restricting a dog's water intake before and after eating, moistening dry food before feeding, and eating from a raised feeding bowl.

Thus, some of the recommendations commonly made to prevent GDV were shown by the research to actually increase the risk of GDV. In the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, Vol. 17, No. 10, Glickman wrote, "In addition, in univariate analysises, many of the recommendations commonly made to prevent GDV, such as raising the food bowl, moistening dry food prior to feeding, and restricting water intake before and after feeding, were associated with a significantly increased risk of GDV."

Recent research, not yet published, has shown an increased risk of GDV in dogs who consumed dry foods containing fat among the first four ingredients, and an increased risk in dogs who consumed dry foods listing citric acid as a preservative, with this risk rising when foods with citric acid were moistened. Although not statistically significant, researchers found that a modest increase in risk of GDV was seen with the consumption of dry foods
that listed more than one corn ingredient among the first four label ingredients, while in contrast, a pattern was observed of decreased GDV risk with an increasing number of protein ingredients of animal origin, including beef, poultry, lamb, and fish among the first four ingredients.

STUDY RECOMMENDATIONS
* Feed two or more meals a day
* Feed no more than one cup per 33 pounds of body weight per meal when feeding two meals a day
* Feed an energy-dense diet, to reduce volume, but avoid a diet where a high amount of calories are from fats.
* Feed a variety of different food types regularly. The inclusion of human foods in a primarily dry dog food diet was associated with a 59 percent decreased risk of GDV while inclusion of canned pet foods was associated with a 28 percent decreased risk
* When feeding dry food, also include foods with sufficient amounts of meats and meat meals, for example: beef, lamb, poultry, and fish.
* Feed a food with larger particles, and include larger pieces of meat to the diet.
* Avoid moistening dry foods
* If your dog eats rapidly, find ways to try to reduce his speed of eating
* Avoid raising the food bowl; place it at ground level
* Try to minimize stress for your dog. Stressful events have been reported to be precipitating factors in GDV occurrence.
* Restrict vigorous exercise one hour before and two hours after meals.
* When you are not in close proximity to your dog, use a baby monitor to alert you if your dog is in distress.
* Learn to recognize signs of GDV, which include pacing and restlessness, head turning to look at the abdomen, distention of the abdomen, rapid shallow breathing, nonproductive attempts at vomiting, and salivation.

These symptoms can progress rapidly to shock and death. Get to your veterinarian or emergency hospital the moment you suspect GDV
_________________

[Elaine]

* Avoid moistening dry foods

Athy,

Thank you for posting this information... btw, I would love a link to the research itself.

I have had large and giant breed dogs my entire life. I have not had a case of bloat for 25 years. We no longer feed in raised dishes, but I do soak my food and always have. So, I guess that will be the hardest recommendation to incorporate into my feeding routine.

I haven’t had a Dane in over twenty years now, but it is rather sad how many of the things Great Dane owners and breeders routinely did are on the list of don’ts. These were things recommended by vets and breeders alike. We fed on raised platforms (they were prizes at Specialties, they were made and sold by club members etc.), we always soaked the food, we fed small unform sized kibble… seldom changed the menu. There was one old breeder, Hazel Mage - Laredo Kennels... she must have had 30 Danes in her kennel at any given time... she bred all five colors… had a lot of Danes… a lot. Hazel fed things that grocery stores and bakeries were throwing out, like day old bread and vegetables... and expired dairy products... her dogs lived forever.

[Athy]

Well, I had a couple links "favorite'ed" but I keep getting a 404 on them. So I'm not sure what's going on with the Purdue stuff.

Here's what I had:

* Research Updates from the Purdue University Prospective Study of Canine Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus (GDV).Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907-1243. Available online at http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/pups.htm

But the site has expired. Might need to go to the main site and see what we can find.

[Lou's mom]

I too still feed dry food soaked w/water, elevated; Will is in the 'picky' phase of eating, prolly cuz he's sick of all the meds, so I've been coaxing him to eat.

edit: found this 6p paper, haven't read it yet - http://www.mrcrottweiler.org/updates/bloat2.pdf

Looks like the original was written in 1994? abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8050972

"The Veterinary Medical Data Base was usd to conduct an epidemiologic study of gastric dilatation and dilatation-volvulus (GDV) to describe changes over time in frequency of canine hospital admissions, to identify risk factors, and to estimate their relative importance. Cases in this case-control study included 1,934 dogs with GDV that were admitted to 12 participating veterinary hospitals from 1980 to 1989. The controls were 3,868 dogs with other diagnoses that were randomly selected from the same hospitals. Frequency of GDV per 1,000 canine hospital admissions ranged from 2.9 to 6.8. The case fatality rate was 28.6 and 33.3% for gastric dilatation alone and for gastric dilatation with volvulus, respectively. Using logistic regression analysis, the odds ratio (OR) and its 95% confidence limits (95% CL) for GDV associated with purebred vs mixed-breed dogs were 2.5 and 2.1, 3.0, respectively. The risk of GDV was associated with increasing age (chi 2 = 305.6, P < 0.0001) and increasing weight (chi 2 = 627.8, P < 0.0001). Significant association of GDV risk with sex or neuter status was not found. The 5 breeds having at least 10 cases and 8 controls and with the highest risk of GDV were Great Dane (OR, 10.0; 95% CL, 6.4, 15.6), Weimaraner (OR, 4.6; 95% CL, 2.3, 9.2), Saint Bernard (OR, 4.2; 95% CL, 2.3, 7.4), Gordon Setter (OR, 4.1; 95% CL, 1.8, 9.3), and Irish Setter (OR, 3.5; 95% CL, 2.4, 5.0). The effect of increasing body weight on GDV risk was less than that of increasing ideal adult breed weight, determined by published breed standards.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)"

[Elaine]

With respect to bloat and many of the other health problems that we are seeing in the large breed dogs like Dobermans, I wish some researcher would see if Sylvia Hammerstrom (Skansen Kennel) would allow access to her dogs, her vaccination protocols, her feeding regimens, and her records. Sylvia has bred over a 1,000 Giant Schnauzer champions since 1950... and tens of thousands of dogs. One estimate was that she had bred close to 50,000 dogs in her lifetime. Far as I know, she is still breeding dogs. She used to take Master Charge and Visa, and she shipped every Tuesday, even got a volume discount rate from the airlines. She used to have as many as 10 litters ready to go at any given time. I have been to the ranch several times in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s and seen the dogs and how they were raised.

Sylvia is/was a fanatic about nutrition, exercise and diet. She claims to have very healthy long lived dogs. Last I knew, she claimed to have never raised a dog at the ranch that had some of the common problems that we all see in our dogs. I can not think of any breeder alive today that has the direct experience with such a huge population of breeding animals. None of us will ever breed the huge number of dogs Sylvia has bred, nor should we. Still, we may be able to learn about health and longevity from her. Here is a quote from Sylvia, "“I advise future breeders to follow their ideals and remember you don’t build strong health and character on a million tests. What you see is truly what matters."


Here is anothr quote from an article about Sylvia, "Sylvia keeps about 50 adult Giants at Skansen. “Our dogs run in big open fields. I am a fanatic on letting them play and keep active. I do private research in feeding programs and follow Dr. Pottenger’s research on cats in the 1930’s with great success. By feeding raw meaty bones to all dogs I have eliminated thyroid problems, torn ligaments, and most cancers. It’s a joy to have few vet bills. Most of the money I spend on vet bills is for health certificates on dogs being shipped. I believe this is a generational improvement just like Dr. Pottenger found in his 900 cats. Each generation is improving. I have also eliminated all vaccinations except rabies and puppy shots.
http://www.skansen.com/