Illegal Ear Cropper Caught In The ACT - Felony charges pending

[Elaine]

We members of the DPCA are supposed to be the vanguards of our breed… without question we are supposed to be upholding the best interests of our breed. Most of us know that there are illegal ear croppers who fly around the country cropping ears on kitchen tables. Most of us, most of John Q Public and the American Veterinary Medical Association believe these unlicensed ear croppers are wrong , that what they do is nothing short of barbaric. And, we have heard from the licensed croppers that they will act aggressively to stop these illegal ear croppers. Both Dr. Patty Edwards and Dr. Sophia Koster have been outspoken critics of illegal ear croppers. Jeff Helsdon quit the DPCA back in 2005 because our then President Pam DeHetre was allegedly an unlicensed ear cropper... the issue has polarized the DPCA for as long as the practice of using unlicensed ear croppers has existed.

As many have pointed out over the years, crossing state lines while illegally in possession of controlled substances is a felony.

Recently a group of us (which includes local law enforcement) became aware of a litter of 14 puppies, owned by members of the DPCA, who were supposedly about to be cropped by yet another member of the DPCA, who purportedly was going to fly into this state (where she is not licensed to practice veterinary medicine) to do the ear crops. We felt it was an opportunity to put a stop to the barbaric practice of unlicensed croppers cropping puppies in private homes.

At one point today one of the law enforcement officials involved contacted Dr. Patty Edwards, one of the licensed vets most outspoken about unlicensed ear croppers. Dr. Edwards supposedly expressed disgust about the practice of unlicensed ear croppers doing at-home ear crops, adding details the investigator had not previously known. Dr. Edwards purportedly provided law enforcement with specific details about the foreign education and/or lack of proper medical credentials of this alleged illegal ear cropper, whom supposedly she knew. Dr. Edwards also knows the DPCA members who had allegedly scheduled the ear cropping in their home for their 14 puppies.

About 5 minutes ago I got a call that the unlicensed ear cropper had been tipped off… that I was supposed to be the bad guy for being part of a collective effort to try to stop this barbaric practice. Sorry, but I do not accept for one moment that the people who try to stop this cruel, risky and barbaric activity are wrong. It is those doing these illegal ear crops and those paying for them that are wrong. That is not my opinion, it is federal and state law.

I spoke with one of the investigators, we feel confident that we know who tipped off the illegal ear cropper. Law enforcement may not catch up with the illegal ear cropper today, but if the practice continues, there will be the day when this all comes to a very public end. If the press gets hold of this, and they will sooner or later, these illegal ear croppers and their customers, who are also members of the DPCA are going to drag the entire club down with them. Again, crossing state lines while illegally in possession of controlled substances is a felony.

I think people use these illegal ear croppers because they are cheap, or broke and the breeders are trying to save a buck. Truth is that getting a litter of puppies to a good licensed vet to crop ears is very expensive and involves a huge commitment of time, energy and resources from the breeder. For some, who show a lot, they probably also believe that these illegal croppers give them a competitive advantage in the ring. Sick as that sounds, it might be true. I can not think of any licensed ear cropper who is a Doberman judge, but as least one person who allegedly crops ears illegally is an AKC Doberman judge. I can see the press showing up ringside at the next AKC show and simply asking the Doberman exhibitors who cropped their dogs ears. That might bring things to a crashing halt. I can think of prominent breeders / exhibitors / DPCA members who could not name a licensed vet who did their ears.

It is blatant hypocrisy for people to claim to love Dobermans and the breed and yet condone this barbaric and illegal activity. FLAT out, I do not buy into any theory that says we should continue to condone this activity because of friendships or because "it is how it’s been done." Having unlicensed ear croppers crop our puppies is illegal, barbaric, cruel, risky and it needs to stop. We members of the DPCA should be at the forefront of those sending the loud clear message that it is wrong and needs to stop, immediately. Members of the DPCA actively engaged in illegal ear cropping (either as clients or as croppers) should resign immediately from the club. And they should all be aware that someday soon the title of this thread will be their reality.

[doberdogsfd]

On other occasions I have posted to Ear Cropping threads, specifically the use of " Kitchen Croppers".

I find it pretty crazy to use someone who is not a vet, who is not legally permitted to obtain and use controlled subtances. You are asking for it folks.
The DEA and local state law enforcment in my area is targeting persons using these croppers It is a felony charge! Been to lock up lately? Not a nice place to be and the bail far outways the cost of driving to Long Island to Dr Fitzgerld's for an amazing crop and superb proffesional treatment.
More important then that, the risk to the puppies is very real. These people are not equipped to handle a serious emergency, should it arise. They do not have the training or the facility to deal with it.


The issue is no one wants to put themselves out a bit. I took 8 puppies to a hotel with a friend, did the work required to handle 8 babies in a pretty nice hotel and then dropped my puppies of for surgery. Returned and drove the 3.5hours home to PA.

I have my issues with a couple of these supposedly "Super Vet Croppers". They are a tad deluded lately, but they are vets at least. They do have the ability to handle an emergency and they do have the licenses to do the job.

Truth is ,my puppies ears are cropped beautifully! I had a great experience with a consumate proffesional and a resource when I had questions. The cost was no different(no delusions of granduer) and a licensed vet to boot!

Cheryl
~ Blackwood~

[Elaine]

Truth is Cheryl, you and Bob put your puppies health and well being first, not your pocket book. You went to extraordinary effort and expense to do what was safe and humane for your puppies. I think that a lot of these people who use kitchen croppers are too cheap or too financially strapped to use licensed ear croppers. I think they should stop breeding if they are not willing or able to do what is right by the puppies they produce and pay for licensed vets to crop their puppy's ears.


How far in the sand does your head have to be in 2009 to not understand that the general public and the news media would be absolutely outraged if they knew that DPCA members participated in this practice of illegally cropping and docking dogs? It is on par with Michael Vick and what he did to dogs. The public relations nightmare for us would be crushing. We would loose all political credibility on any dog issue, and maybe rightly so. How can we be the vanguards of the Doberman breed if we allow this to go on and do nothing?

I do not buy for one minute a claim that the crop of these illegal ear croppers magically “does not hurt” or is always “a perfect crop job.” Bullshit!!! Things go wrong in surgery even under the best of circumstances, and when they do, the PUPPY needs the life saving resources of a fully stocked vet clinic. We all know this, no matter how deluded we have become over the years. Even worse than cropping ears at the kitchein table is when these hackers re-dock a puppy at 8-12 weeks… that is flat out barbaric.

Like many in the DPCA, I am sick of the duplicity that the club has shown on this issue, but I think it goes back to DPCA members (including officers of the DPCA and DPCA Board members), being and/or using illegal ear croppers. I am sick to death of people looking the other way when they know about illegal ear cropping going on. Especially if they know in time to stop the horror show. I would and WILL do this again in a heart beat, anytime I become aware of an unlicensed ear cropper who is about to hack into some poor defenseless puppies on someone’s kitchen table.

Unlike the person who tipped off the illegal ear cropper, I am willing to stand up for the principle that these defenseless puppies should not be hacked at by unlicensed people, who operate in people's homes, without necessary medical training and/or backup, while they are illegally in possession of controlled substances. In a way I have put myself at risk, I have now made myself the target of certain DPCA members, including at least one DPCA Board Member. The people involved know who I am, and that I was part of a group that tried to stop them (which I will do again in a heartbeat). To them I am a traitor. They can throw my name around, but I too can name names here. One of them called a few times late last night, not pretty conversations to say the least. I am outraged at even the whiff of the suggestion that it is wrong to try to stop a felony that involves such brutality. The people aiding and abetting these felons are in the wrong, not those who try to stop it. I’d like to hold these people down and let the unlicensed person crop their ears… or hack away at the tip of their spine, and let them tell us it does not hurt.

[doberdogsfd]

Elaine,

I am with you on this. I know Cheryl already posted, however I feel the need to get my two cents in.

It really is about credibility and shining a light on dark corners of the sport. It is high time that dog showing stops being a dirty business and that breeders take responsibility for the life that they created. What is never talked about is when the crop goes wrong, because then one would have to admit that what they were doing was incorrect. Or when the puppy was not given enough anesthesia and is screaming in the middle of the crop. Just because it has been done does not make it right. In Afghanistan under the Taliban women were publicly beaten and maimed. That has been going on for a long time, it is the tradition, but I do not know anyone that would stand up and say it was the right thing. Most are outraged by the practice.

If you cannot afford the cost of using a professional why are you breeding? Now I do not support the "super Vets" and the silliness with pricing as in my mind they are part of the problem and give a certain amount of credibility to using kitchen croppers. Hell in some cases folks are probably using the "kitchen croppers" just to avoid having to deal with the neuroses and bullshit of the "super vets". This still does not make it right, but maybe if the "super vets" knocked off the B.S. there would be less of need for the "kitchen croppers".

If you do not want to have to drive a bit extra so you can deal with a professional like Merry Fitzgerald, why are you producing puppies? I hate driving to New York, Long Island or anywhere in North Jersey. However it was well worth it based on the quality of the crop, professionalism, care of the puppies, and support from Merry.

Let's all step into the light and put this silliness behind us before it blows up in our faces and again the breed we love takes another perception hit!!!

On another note Elaine I (WE) are with you and have your back...as always I am ready for good dust up, does wonder for stress relief...LOL

Bob
~Blackwood~

[Betty]

Oh Bob, how right you are! The only thing wrong with show dogs is (some) show people!! Little people with big egos. Little people who care more about winning and making money than the welfare of their dogs (breed). The truth is that John Q. Public doesn't hold show people in high esteem. They don't see the many caring owner/breeders out there that try to do the right thing; but rather they see those that will do anything to win and make money. The important thing here is, of course, THESE PEOPLE VOTE!!
Having owned Labradors for many years, I actually believe in ear cropping. I see it as a health issue. I can't tell you how many ear infections we have treated over the years just because a little bit of snow got in someone's ear. Ear cropping does have value, but for God's sake, let's do it safely and humanely.

Betty

[Lou's mom]

And glad of it. Back when I got Lou (from the local DPCA club president), she referred his ear crop to a SE vet that folks from all over took their dobers, boxers, etc.

Any member of DPCA who condones, advises, performs, or has illegal crops done to their own dogs should IMMEDIATELY resign, and be barred from returning to the show ring for several years. Can you say "aiding & abetting" a felony? :mad:

Let's ask that on entry forms for breeds with cropped ears, the name of the veterinarian performing the crop should be listed. That'd wash out some of this nastiness.... :throwingupnow:

It's not as though the breed didn't already have an image/PR issue, this is something that could seriously affect its future!

[Elaine]

And glad of it. Back when I got Lou (from the local DPCA club president), she referred his ear crop to a SE vet that folks from all over took their dobers, boxers, etc.

Any member of DPCA who condones, advises, performs, or has illegal crops done to their own dogs should IMMEDIATELY resign, and be barred from returning to the show ring for several years. Can you say "aiding & abetting" a felony? :mad:

Let's ask that on entry forms for breeds with cropped ears, the name of the veterinarian performing the crop should be listed. That'd wash out some of this nastiness.... :throwingupnow:

It's not as though the breed didn't already have an image/PR issue, this is something that could seriously affect its future!

That is an excellent idea.

I hear the most of the Delegate body is opposed to ear cropping… of the approximately 170 recognized breeds (or whatever the number is today), only something like 20 breeds are docked or cropped… most of the Delegates do not want to be tainted by supporting cropping and docking. We, with cropped breeds, do not need to make it even harder for them to support us.

IF the media gets film of some illegal cropper (say of a litter of Pitt Bulls) and then connects it to DPCA members doing these kind of illegal crops and docks, you can imagine the fall out. The film could run with a voice over, "Here folks is what a kitchen ear crop look like... and members ot the DPCA engage in the practice"

The hand writing is on the wall, I think the DPCA (through its Delegate to the AKC) needs to propose that the AKC require those with cropped breeds to list the licensed cropper / docker on all AKC forms, including entry forms, litter registrations and transfer of ownership forms. IF the DPCA took that step, it would at least give the perception that we opposed illegal ear cropping /docking. But the truth is, too many within the DPCA engage in the activity.

[dobesign]

A dear friend had a litter cropped by a fly by night vet. The pups could not be sufficient anesthetised because they weighed more than the hacker could supply injectable induction for. I will NEVER forget the screaming as she continued to chop away despite my compaints. Much to my horror, some time later I purchased a pup that was not only cropped but tail docked for a second time by this same vet. If I had known this was the breeder's plan, I would have gladly forgone the ear crop to spare my pup that particular medical obscenity. I love the look of a well-cropped dog, but I am not willing to jeopardise the pup's life for it. If people complain about how much a litter crops but cannot comprehend the value of life, then perhaps they should find a new way to earn money, since the dog is clearly not in consideration when compared to the dollar sign. If we cannot afford to perform a medical procedure correctly and safely, then we should NOT perform it at all under any circumstance. In places such as India and areas of extreme poverty, we hear of people selling body parts for money, then dying of medical complications. Here in our easy seats we say that such horrid things could never happen in a place so much more civil such as we have here. Wake up call, it happens with pups being amputated on a kitchen table by a person who smuggled injectable ketamine and valium into a state where they have no license to practise (some will say it's being done in the facility of another local vet, but this is hogwash as a vet will lose their license for condoning malpractise willingly). Perhaps we should move toward uncropped dogs if this is how we handle the responsibility of cropping our dogs. Some things are wonderful to find inexpensively...but I don't feel that ethical behaviour should be one of them.

[Elaine]

A dear friend had a litter cropped by a fly by night vet. The pups could not be sufficiently anesthetised because they weighed more than the hacker could supply injectable induction for. I will NEVER forget the screaming as she continued to chop away despite my compaints.

I believe we are speaking of the same fly by night vet "hacker" who was "allegedly" flying in to NC to illegally crop the 14 puppies, and 4 other puppies from another litter. She is a member of the DPCA as are the people she was allegedly flying in to crop for. Personally, I think that people who have their puppies cropped by these illegal ear croppers and the illegal ear croppers themselves should be in jail. At the very least, they should be out of the DPCA and out of dogs altogether.





The hand writing is on the wall, I think the DPCA (through its Delegate to the AKC) needs to propose that the AKC require those with cropped breeds to list the licensed cropper on all AKC forms, including entry forms, litter registrations and transfer of ownership forms. IF the DPCA took that step, it would at least give the perception that we opposed illegal ear cropping. But the truth is, too many within the DPCA engage in the activity.

This line (or something similar) should be added to all AKC forms and all DPCA forms, including things like DPCA Futurity forms.

If cropped, name of licensed vet who did the procedure_________________________________________ _________________________
Knowingly providing false information to the AKC is reason for life-time suspension of all AKC privileges.


It has been suggested that we make this proposal at the Annual Meeting at the DPCA National. Not sure we need to wait that long. Another option is to simply get an All Breed Club Delegate to make the proposal at the next AKC Delegate meeting.

DPCA Board members read DSNN. They know about this thread, they certainly know about this issue. The DPCA has a chance now to take leadership of this issue, and make a clear stand for what is right… now! This issue is as important as any issue the DPCA will ever face. Currently the DPCA has a statement something like this on the DPCA website, “ The DPCA supports the freedom to crop but under a licensed veterinarian in the state in which the surgical procedure is conducted or under direct supervision of a licensed vet in states which allow that practice.” Given that DPCA members (even BoD members) openly engage in the practice of using illegal ear croppers, the statement seems weak, almost laughably so.

The DPCA can not continue to do nothing about this illegal and brutal activity. We all know it is going on within our club. Truth is, there are too many butchers /hypocrites within the DPCA itself for the DPCA to take a clear strong stand against illegal ear cropping. Too many DPCA members engage in this brutal and illegal conduct. They have gotten away with their illegal conduct for decades... they even talk openly about it ringside. Most of us have looked the other way for decades. But things have changed dramatically. In 2009 having DPCA members (and even worse, DPCA Board of Directors) actively engaged in illegal ear cropping threatens the DPCA itself. This issue threatens us all because it risks destroying the DPCA's ability to be a credible advocate for Dobermans.

[Elaine]

Thanks to Cheri McNealy and Cyberdobes, we all had access to the AKC's file in Martin v. Teague… we had access to Mr. Gaeta’s deposition and the letters he relied upon. Among those letters is one from one of the individuals allegedly involved this past weekend, who purportedly uses an unlicensed ear cropper.

AS we all know, the issue of using illegal ear croppers has been around for a long time.


Back in 2005, after the California SB 1548 fight, Dr. Greenwood filed a formal complaint with the AKC (drafted by me, prompted in part by Mr. Jeff Helsdon) related to the then DPCA president Pam DeHetre being an unlicensed ear cropper. I still have the email exchanges with Mr. Helsdon and a copy of the formal complaint filed with the AKC.

It is public knowledge that after the SB1548 fight in California Mr. Helsdon made a grand show of resigning from the DPCA. He did so on Cyberdobes… in a public letter to us all, saying that he had recently learned that Pam DeHetre flew around the country cropping ears. While I may differ with Mr. Helsdon on many issues (and do not now agree with the drama of his public resignation), I clearly understand his frustration that members of the DPCA actively engaged in illegal ear cropping. Though the name of the unlicensed cropper and her clients may have changed, it seems that in 2009, not much else has changed... DPCA members still engage in this illegal activity.

I do not for a moment believe that the DPCA will take a leadership role in extinguishing illegal ear croppers. Too many within the DPCA engage in the practice. As the American public and the mainstream press may soon learn, DPCA members are the face of illegal ear croppers, both as the clients and the croppers. Therefore, I think it is time we brought this issue back to the AKC… naming names if necessary, but with the ultimate goal of a simple but effective AKC policy change (rather than punishment for any single individual[s]).

We need to push for the AKC to simply implement a policy that mandates (for those few cropped breeds) that in order to avail one’s self of any AKC privileges, one must submit the name of the licensed vet who did the ear crop. Such a policy change would be a win for everyone, most especially for the dogs. And without question the DPCA should implement this policy change immediately. There is no more important issue facing the DPCA in 2009.

If cropped, name of licensed vet who did the procedure_________________________________________ _______________________
Knowingly providing false information to the AKC is reason for life-time suspension of all AKC privileges.

[Arthur]

Elisea v. State,77 an Indiana Appellate Court upheld convictions for animal cruelty and practicing veterinary medicine without a license, after the defendant performed amateur ear cropping procedures on twelve pit bull puppies. The court described the facts in Elisea:

During the procedure, Elisea has an assistant bind the dogs' legs and mouths with tape. Once immobilized, Elisea marked a line along each ear with an eyeliner pencil and, after numbing the ears with ice, but without any anesthetic, cut the dogs' ears with a pair of office scissors. Vaseline and Bactine were placed on each cut, and Elisea told [the dogs' owners] to keep the puppies outside in the cold because their ears would heal more quickly.78

Because Indiana's animal cruelty statute79 does not specifically define the terms "torture" and "mutilate," as used in the statute, the court relied on their plain meanings80 and found that the trial court did not err in finding the defendant guilty of animal cruelty. Furthermore, the court found that "Elisea's act of cutting the puppies' ears was a surgical procedure for which he accepted money"81 and was a violation of Indiana's prohibition of practicing veterinary medicine without a license.82 This case is particularly important because owners and breeders can no longer conduct amateur ear croppings and tail dockings under the auspices of a "common amateur practice" that was excluded from the prohibition against animal cruelty or practicing veterinary medicine without a license.

[Arthur]

The DPCA website needs to address this issue. They have information about what one should know before buying a dog or before breeding. Why does it not inform prospective buyers to only buy from breeders who use a licensed veterinarian? Breeders should know that it is illegal and unethical to use someone who is not licensed to crop their litter. Members of the DPCA should know that if they engage in such criminal activity that they will be banned from competing in any DPCA sanctioned events.

[Lou's mom]

We need to push for the AKC to simply implement a policy that mandates (for those few cropped breeds) that in order to avail one’s self of any AKC privileges, one must submit the name of the licensed vet who did the ear crop. Such a policy change would be a win for everyone, most especially for the dogs. And without question the DPCA should implement this policy change immediately. There is no more important issue facing the DPCA in 2009.

If cropped, name of licensed vet who did the procedure_________________________________________ _______________________
Knowingly providing false information to the AKC is reason for life-time suspension of all AKC privileges.

Hear hear, that's what I'm talking about. How do we go about doing so?

What with the popularity of agility & rally-o for the non-conformation crowd, maybe we can exert pressure from below.

You know, kinda like how our government political process is SUPPOSED to work? ;)

[Eve Auch]

Just got in from Hawaii's evaluation so I'm late on this thread. I agree with what is being said but will staunchly disagree that there is no licensed vet who is an AKC judge who does cropping. I've used Dr. Carl Pew for years. Not only is he licensed in several states (including California), he is an AKC judge for several breeds (including Dobermans). I'm guessing that he probably does hundreds of crops a year.

He also is a great reproductive vet. For 39 years I only did natural breedings. Then I was forced last year to go to frozen semen. Carl did the surgical implant and it resulted in nine beautifully healthy puppies.

I have never in 40 years ever used anyone to crop my puppies' ears who was unlicensed. Guess I'm different from others in that regard. But just because we have some well known illegal croppers in this country, don't paint the picture that there is no AKC judge who does cropping. You may not like his crops (see the cover of the DPM with the DPCA's WD/BOW on the cover) but I'm a big fan of Carl's.

Eve

[Elaine]

Just got in from Hawaii's evaluation so I'm late on this thread. I agree with what is being said but will staunchly disagree that there is no licensed vet who is an AKC judge who does cropping. I've used Dr. Carl Pew for years. Not only is he licensed in several states (including California), he is an AKC judge for several breeds (including Dobermans). I'm guessing that he probably does hundreds of crops a year.

He also is a great reproductive vet. For 39 years I only did natural breedings. Then I was forced last year to go to frozen semen. Carl did the surgical implant and it resulted in nine beautifully healthy puppies.

I have never in 40 years ever used anyone to crop my puppies' ears who was unlicensed. Guess I'm different from others in that regard. But just because we have some well known illegal croppers in this country, don't paint the picture that there is no AKC judge who does cropping. You may not like his crops (see the cover of the DPM with the DPCA's WD/BOW on the cover) but I'm a big fan of Carl's.

Eve
Thanks Eve.. here's is the data on Dr. Pew from Infodog, http://www.infodog.com/judges/6010/juddat.htm

Dr. Carl L. Pew
525 South State Street
Orem, UT 84058
(801) 372-1079
FAX: (801) 221-2902
Email: silmarilbt@aol.com

Dr. Pew is approved to judge Alaskan Malamutes, Dobermans, Giant Schnauzers, St. Bernards, Colored and White Bull Terriers, Minature Bull Terriers and West Highlan White Terriers.

Can’t recall ever showing to him, and I can’t recall his crops, but it’s good to know he’s around. Looks like he got one Doberman assignment in ‘08 and he has none lined up so far for 09. It would be nice if clubs used him.

About my comment, the point I was going for is that too many within the DPCA engage in the practice of using unlicensed ear croppers… we have DPCA Board members (e.g. Sharon Pflueger, d.b.a. Gold Grove Kennel) and even a past President of the DPCA (Pam DeHetre, who judged at our DPCA National in 2007) who are purportedly engaged in this practice either as clients or croppers. The DPCA looses all credibility with politicians and the American public when our members are openly engaged in using unlicensed ear croppers. The DPCA needs to decide, are we a club of felons? Or, are we law-abiding citizens who can be credible advocates for the Doberman breed in 2009. There are 1001 reasons members of the DPCA engage in the activity, ranging from: “I’ve always used Ann Platt or Pam DeHetre" to, "they are cheaper" to, "they do a better job.” None of those reasons will fly with a judge. DPCA members are the face of illegal ear croppers.

I think back to the 2008 National, honoring our war veterans. It felt that the DPCA was trying to exploit men and women of honor who serve in our armed forces for some positive PR for the DPCA. Positve PR is all well and good, but I wondered then (and I wonder now), can the DPCA (and people like Mr. Helsdon, who never served this country) grasp that the men and woman of our military are putting their lives on the line to uphold the laws of this country! Using unlicensed ear croppers is both illegal and brutal. Would the veterans we paraded out at the 2008 National have even wanted to show up if they knew the truth about our club… if they knew that the DPCA tacitly ignores the wide spread use of unlicensed ear croppers? Arthur is currently on active duty in the USAF, he has about 20 years of service, including deployments to Iraq and other places around the world. He is a member of the DPCA, he is a medical doctor who understands full well what goes on during these illegal ear crops. And, he understands the challenges of finding qualified licensed vets to do ears properly. Given what he knows of the internal politics of the DPCA, and of the use of illegal ear croppers, he would not have participated in the DPCA event.

[Eve Auch]

Again, I agree with you completely, Elaine. And yes, it is too bad that more clubs don't use Carl as a judge. I've watched him judge many times and he has done an excellent job. I will not show to him because my ethics prevent it. I am his client both in cropping and reproductive work. I've even been known to drive the 580 miles one way to get a bitch spayed, my male neutered, and two of my males collected (Carl has the storage facility right there). I simply would not feel comfortable exhibiting under him so I don't.

If any clubs ever do use him, he puts on a helluva seminar after judging on reproduction.

Again, I agree with you 100%. I don't use, and have never used, an illegal cropper. And unfortunately, recently I've seen ears off of them that are so long that they wouldn't fit on a Dane's head. Guess it is all in one's ethics and perspectives. But if you are going to play that game, then expect to get burned.

Eve