Making a Good Impression

[Elaine]

With respect to selling a top quality show dog, what does it take to make a good impression?

From time-to-time breeders get approached by people who want a really competitive show dog / breeding animal. Sometimes these people live outside the continental United States.

To be very blunt, there are breeders who breed to make a mortgage payment (or pay their show expenses), who will sell to anyone willing to write a check, but most breeders are rather cautious about selling top prospects to new comers. Some breeders flat out refuse to sell puppies outside the continental United States. For example, as I recall Cindi Huckfeldt had a clause in her stud dog contract for Kohl that prohibited the bitch owner from selling any of Kohl’s puppies outside the USA.

The problem is, new comers are the future of our breed, and with all the breed specific legislation, anti-cropping anti docking legislation and mandatory spay neuter legislation… foreign countries may well be the last places on earth we will see a docked cropped Doberman.

So, what does it take for a new comer or foreign buyer to impress you?

[Minka]

My answer - be yourself
I'm currently going through the excercise , the way I see it you have two choices
1. you pick the breeders or people you want to work with and get to know them
For me its not just about the dog , its about the people who come with the dog and the relationships you acquire . The support structure you acquire through the lifetime of a dog is important.
They may or may not choose to give you a dog - but youve acquired friends and if your persistant - you should get the dog you want along with the people you want ( this is just my logic and if it works i''ll let you know )
2. You go to the bigger breeders - now you may not get the animal you want and you will be one among many possibly

or alternatively you pay big money and acquire a champion ( a one off transaction )

It depends on your goals , the money you have at hand to spend , the time your willing to take and the sort of transaction you want ( heres the money give me a show dog - see you later or when I want the next trophy or relationships that last a lifetime )

I stilll have nto been able to acquire one so at best this is pure theory

[doberdogsfd]

Minka,

I could not agree with you more. Cheryl and I have the good fortune to have a lot of interest our litter. It being our first we have been methodical about where and who we place these puppies with. We believe that it is our duty to be there for the life of the puppies we produce much like Arthur and Elaine do. We do not believe in being psycho breeders who want to dominate and control every thing the puppy owner does. However we have a vested interested in assuring the best possible home for the puppies. After all they did not ask to be born!!!

We have had several people we have denied a puppy to. They started out sounding good and then as the process went on their goals and some of things they said were in conflict with other things they said. A big no no for us. See they were not originally being themselves; they were trying to be what we wanted and trying to tell us what we wanted to hear. Some of the folks walked away from us because they were not interested in being part of a life of the puppy relationship. Cheryl and I have very similar jobs, I spend most of days interrogating/interviewing people that steal from the company I work for as does Cheryl on a slightly smaller scale. Folks who pretend to be something they are not turn us off instantly.

We have great luck with our puppy owners; we get pictures and have built some awesome friendships with them. Our lives have been enriched by getting to know them and having the peace of mind to know that the puppy is in the best place possible.

Right now it is a theory for you, it is a fact for us, both in where we place dogs and when we acquire a dog from a breeder. I can tell you that we were right upfront with Arthur and Elaine. We let see who we are and how care for our dogs or "kids" as we like to refer to them. We were clear on what our goals were with Vaako and that we wanted to breed him to Emma if everything worked out. There were no secrets. Elaine and Arthur were clear with us. It has been awesome having them as mentors breeding this first litter, the knowledge they possess is amazing. Sometimes it is the littlest thing that makes all the difference.

Our advice would be to be you and to find a breeder that will be there for the life of the puppy. Stay away from the ones that think puppy owners are a pain in the ass and want to sell you a dog and hope to never hear from you again. Or the ones that want to control you and tell you how you will do everything, even though they are not putting anything in, be it money or time or mentorship. The road to a good relationship is a long one with many potholes, but once you have it the road is paved in GOLD!!!


Stay the course,

Bob and Cheryl
~Blackwood~

[Minka]

I think its going to be a very long wait for me, I won't compremise on the people aspect and I don't live on the continent of North America

[VeloAlison]

Just wonder why breeders won't sell out of the US? People are people, you can have an idiot that lives here as easily as an idiot that lives in another country. keeping them in the states doesn;t give you control.

Alison McDonald

[doberdogsfd]

No Alison, that isn't true.
We have a better line of sight on our puppies here in this country.

See Bob and I are here for the life of the dog. We brought them into this world and we will work always to ensure to the best of our considerable abilites, that they live a happy and loved life.
It isn't about control, it is about doing the right thing for them.

Besides as the breeder we have the right to tell anyone we want that they can't have one of our puppies......and have.

You are spot on about the idiots, there are many in this country.
But it is a simple fact that in some countries dogs /pets are treated far differently then here.


Cheryl

[VeloAlison]

I agree there are some countries that don't think of dogs in the same respect we do but I hate that a blank term is used like 'no puppies out of the USA'. Thank dog the people from other countries didn't have that same principle or we would wouldn't have had the pleasure of using such dogs as Lex Luther, Inaqui, Apollo, and the dog I just used Nevar. Wow, without those dogs (just to name a few) that would certainly change things up wouldn't it?
Regards,
Alison

[Minka]

Hi VeloAlison
Its frusterating trust me when you can't get a dog from the sort of people you want to get it from. Its easy to just splash the money but in fair ness the Greenwood's never said no they were the first people I contacted , they gave me the inital advice and brought me over to this forum
Where I got a reality check about certain things, I've interacted with some fantastic folk Janice who's also become quasi mentor ( she lets me critique her dogs and sends me articles ), the black woods guys or dober ---( there on this post - aka bob and cherly - the ann rice fan )
I've learnt a fair bit all of which I never would have had elaine just done her routine checks investigate me put into place measures and said yeah ok I'll give you a dog - Instead they have given me the freedom to learn , introduced me to people who are part of their doggy circle and continue to answer my questions
The rational is look we've done our checks but its not fool proof , if the dog is in the us and someone tells us something is wrong well go back and get the dog and they do it - check tungsten and titaniums stories .
The blackwoods well operate /aim to operate under the same principles , Ill probably spend more in phone calls - but hopefull when he or she arrives in India shell bring a lot of friends with her -

[Minka]

Hi VeloAlison
Its frusterating trust me when you can't get a dog from the sort of people you want to get it from. Its easy to just splash the money but in fair ness the Greenwood's never said no they were the first people I contacted , they gave me the inital advice and brought me over to this forum
Where I got a reality check about certain things, I've interacted with some fantastic folk Janice who's also become quasi mentor ( she lets me critique her dogs and sends me articles ), the black woods guys or dober ---( there on this post - aka bob and cherly - the ann rice fan )
I've learnt a fair bit all of which I never would have had elaine just done her routine checks investigate me put into place measures and said yeah ok I'll give you a dog - Instead they have given me the freedom to learn , introduced me to people who are part of their doggy circle and continue to answer my questions
The rational is look we've done our checks but its not fool proof , if the dog is in the us and someone tells us something is wrong well go back and get the dog and they do it - check tungsten and titaniums stories .
The blackwoods well operate /aim to operate under the same principles , Ill probably spend more in phone calls - but hopefull when he or she arrives in India shell bring a lot of friends with her -'
I don't believe there averse to sending a dog overseas - they just want it to be the right people they send it to if that makes sense

[doberdogsfd]

Thank you Minka...we couldn't have said it better. It is really about the person we are sending the dog to.

We wanted to keep Vaako's first litter close to home or the folks in Brazil would have a puppy. They appear to be good people. Responsible for their dogs and what they produce.
It is about building the relationship and then perhaps taking the next step down the road.

Cheryl

[Minka]

Now on the flip side - I should be given the same choice that a prospective the US puppy buyer. After allfinding the right dog is tougher and the effort put in to get the dog over greater
Questions that should be asked prior to where do you live or where is the dog going - I think should be as follows
The consideration set should be Why I want the dog ? what my goals are ? what are my intentions for the dog if it does not meet expectations ( I say this because - I've read of one instance when people returned the dog from overseas - you can sell a show prospect you can't guarantee results - there a combination of environmental factors ( conditioning) - genetics and politics
Why our dogs ? what conditions will it be raised in ?
Now all the questions in the world cannot substitute two things ( the impressions that meeting a person leave you with - heres where I fall over ) and gut feel
you can never account for people that lie and are very good at keeping the facade up - your as likely to find (now forgive the french) a complete arsehole in the United States as you are in the rest of the world.
The theory suggests that if you made a mistake and sold your pup to the arsehole in the US you would be able to rescue it because someone somewhere will see the dog recognise it for the pup you sold them and report back whilst if you sold to the arsehole abroad you wouldnt know better and it would cost a great deal more to rescue the pup
now if I may say so this completly discrimenates in favour of the arsehole in the US :D

[Elaine]

...and the dog I just used Nevar.


Sounds interesting. Tell me about this breeding, who is the bitch, what's her pedigree? And what is Nevar's registered name?

[Minka]

I think I've argued both sides - one on the basis of experience - the other more colourfully the basis of logic.
Most people who want to import an animal are breeders (I have no empirical evidence - this is just an anecdotal hypothesis ) and they will get their dog because commercial show kennels exist in the world - if its the dog they want is subject to a lot of variables. Therefore I'd argue that Nello's Lex Luther or a mordern day alternate version would still exist
The hobby breeder does not so this for a living and therefore they are well within their rights to do their due dilligence and construct a framework under which they operate - (and bravo for doing so ) their primary concern is to provide their puppies with a safe home - they remain partly responsible for the animal through its natural life
Although slightly disadvantaged by this - I emphatically endorse the concept - It might take me longer to get what I want( and I am confident that I will get my dog) but it will drastically reduce the number of options available to people who show and discard animals or those who exploit them for commercial gain