Pro Plan Select Dog Food Questions

[Kissntell]

Ok so I have been won over to Pro Plan Select.

So since Moe and Tammy told me to feed the Salmon I have done so since March 17.

March 17 was the first day of Macy's season.

63 days past ovulation I got a MAJOR FALSE PREGNANCY going on.

I came home and she had nested out the house. I think that she had "Whelped".

Next came the real fun stuff...

She became overly protective of the imaginary babies. She will protect them with her life. I have had her to two vets.

My specialist internal medicine doctor said that it is really not unusual and that I should not put her into situations where she feels the need to protect the "babies." There is no medication which can handle this which does not have severe side affects.

The reproductive specialist vet told me that this could last 6 to 7 weeks and that it was really not all that uncommon. She suggested that if I had children in the house that I should get her out of the house and board her out during this time. I am not in that situation, but believe me this is not easy. It is taking all of me to work though this stuff.

Well...I won't go into it...but we have had 3 protective encounters. Now I don't make the mistakes anymore. I've got a professional trainer helping me with that now. You have absolutely no room for a mistake right now.

But here is my question:

I spoke with someone who knows dog nutrition. This is not a person that works for a dog food manufacturer.

They told me that Salmon in the dog food form is not the food to feed dogs especially non altered dogs.

Here's what happens:

Salmon is heavily hormone driven. Hormone sends the Salmon up streams to spawn. Thus, it increases the female hormones in the bitches.

The Salmon that is sold for dog food is coming from the Salmon that is "not for human consumption." This Salmon is cheaper and grown in "fish farms." The more expensive fish is not ending up in dog food. This makes sense.

The fish farm Salmon that is used for pet food is the old "retired" fish that is fed hormone related food in order to produce spawning eggs. Since it is heavily fed the hormone laced food, it is never sold for human consumption; but being that the industry does not lose money, it is sold now for "pet food." These are their "breeder Salmon."

This is totally legal. The food is not for human consumption.

The Salmon based food does not upset the hormone level in all dogs. It works very well on older not newer adjusting to the "heat cycle" bitches. It also is good on altered dogs.

Anyway, I ended up with the bitch of bitches.

So on the Fourth of July, I retured the Salmon bag of Pro Plan and got the Chicken.

All along I have had difficulites getting Macy to eat the Salmon. She is now eating the Chicken Pro Plan herself. She seems to be acting better and this morning there was no milk. However, she is now at 4 weeks false pregnancy.

I am not yet ready to trust her and her "babies."

But I thought I'd pass on this information as to use of the Salmon select blend. It may not happen to you...but it sure has happend to me and believe me it is not worth it.

Macy has taught me a whole bunch.

Anyway...have any of you ever heard of this happening? The Salmon theory sounds about right. If it is true...maybe you may not want to use it.

[Athy]

Is Eve Auch on here? Eve gave me an excellent remedy for dealing wiith false pregnancies using parsley I think (this has been some years ago). My girl Emma would go into false pregnancy after every heat cycle. I would pick up the stuffies and exercise her and cut back her food and all that but still she would have pretend babies, make tons of milk and be super protective and downright bitchy. Eve gave me the recipe and I started doing that with Emma and that was the end of the false pregnancies. Hopefully she'll post her recipe.

Might be good to try that in conjunction with dietary management.

Athy

[Kissntell]

I would love a parsley remedy to this!

Insodently, I forgot to add that this nutrition person told me that much of the fish has mercury, lead and many heavy metals which are toxic as well.

But then it could be that she has a false pregnancy either way.

The Salmon idea was intriging to me.

[Kissntell]

Thanks...the toys got boxed up 4 weeks ago. She doesn't care. She's got the leash which she drags with her into her crate to use as the "baby."

I did notice that she was real easy to gain weight something of which she never had before. But now I cut her back to a once a day feeding with just a one time portion. So she is getting half of what was at two times a day portion. This has helped some.

Hopefully, Eve will come along and share that receipe. Because a bitch like this is not easy to live with. I have a totally different regard to mom-ma dogs now.

BTW: Did you have any problems with a real litter?

[Athy]

I never bred Emma - I love her dearly but breeding her would have done nothing to improve the breed :)

[doberdogsfd]

Wild caught Alaskan Salmon is pretty clean.
Fed 1 x weekly it does not load up and the small amounts of mercury is not an issue.

I purchase salmon that is wild caught only and feed that...the same prodcut I eat myself.
I also see far less false pregnancies on a raw based diet.

Sometimes specific lines are prone to false pregnancy. You might touch base with your breeder and see what the deal is or perhaps someone that owns a bitch from the same litter.

Cheryl

[Kissntell]

When my original "Minnie" (Doberman) was sick with that copper storage disease, I cooked all her food myself from scratch which was of course from human sources.

I am beginning to think of doing that again. It is just convient to have dog food formulated. It is in getting the right correct nutrition together.

I did the boiled whole chicken less the bones with rice. It worked but my kitchen looked like a restaurant with the pots and pans.

[doberdogsfd]

I hear you about the ease of having a food prep'd and ready to go...helps a lot in a busy day!
I use Abady...both a kibble and their fresh frozen raw foods, puppy and adult.
Much easeir for me to get here on the East Coast then you guys out their. They are NY State based and do all their own deliveries.

I just rotate sources of protien for the all of them. The foundation is Abady raw.

Emma was very prone to false pregnancies before I switched to a raw based diet. None on this diet.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Cheryl

[OldDrumDobes]

I have a bitch who has awful false pregnancies after each season, protects the toys, nest, she goes all out.
Anyhow.. What I have done and it works. And have had recommended to me by many old timers.
Start amoxicillin just one pill at 250mg once a day, soon as she comes in till no color. As well start the parsley as soon as she comes in. About a quarter of a container of dry parsley a day, till the whole pregnancy ends. If she will eat more parsley then add it. I used fresh parsley in the summer from the garden, and my bitch would catch it like a treat and eat it up. Cut back the food intake, add a little green beans to fill their stomachs up. Lots of exercise. And last but not least if and when she swells and has "milk" rub her stomach down w/ Hemmoroid cream and a ace bandage around her mid-section for a few hours before she shows.

[Kissntell]

Old Drum Dobes thanks so much!

My question is because I don't know the size of the "container" you are using is how much parsley? A quarter teaspoon? A full teaspoon? Or Tablespoon?

Do you mix it in with the food?

I just recently got her to eat the chicken formula Pro Plan.

What may be working with her is to only feed once a day. I prefer to feed twice a day but then she has no appetite.

I do feed the expensive caned dog food like about $2.35 per can to mix in with her kibble. (Like Merick) I use a third of a regular sized can.

I have seen my mom's Boston Terriers go through the false pregnancy too but I have never observed (or felt the sting of) a full on false pregnancy. Because this bitch too is what I would call a heavy on emotional false pregnancy. She is not heavy with milk but she is heavy in protection of the "babies." Its not fun to live with that's for sure.

[Eve Auch]

Sorry for the delay in answering but with Roger running for the Treasurer of the DPCA, it has been pretty busy around here.

Here is what I do for false pregnancies:

1. Feed a good senior dog food, and do not use a regular maintenance kibble. You can use the same amount because the caloric intake is reduced.

2. Add 1/4 cup of dehydrated parsley to each of her two feedings a day. I soak the parsley in warm water to make a tea. Then I add the kibble.

3. Take away all toys or anything that could be used as a substitute for a baby.

4. Lots of exercise and distractions.

5. Limit water intake. I don't mean to let her get dehydrated, but don't let her water intake cause her to produce milk.

6. Above all, limit protein, which causes milk production. My dogs are all on raw meat (usually elk, venison, wild turkey, buffalo, etc.). When my bitches are coming into heat (not yet there), raw meat gets removed from their diet.

I haven't had a bitch go into a false pregnancy recently, but I do have a bitch that is coming into heat every four months. And now her two daughters are coming into heat every three months (for one) and four months (for the other).

Does anyone have a way of prolonging heats without causing a hormonal problem????

Eve Auch

[doberdogsfd]

Very interesting!
Once my bitches were placed on a raw diet, there were little or no false pregnancies. It wasn't the reason I put them on a raw diet but it was one of the many benefits for sure!

Good stuff and interesting to get everyone's experiences!

Cheryl

[Athy]

Eve Auch wrote: "Sorry for the delay in answering but with Roger running for the Treasurer of the DPCA, it has been pretty busy around here."

Wondered when you all would go public! I am very pleased that Roger is going to run for the position of DPCA Treasurer!!! I read Roger's complete bio and of course signed his petition to run "from the floor".

Eve, I hope that you or Roger will post Roger's complete bio on DSNN. I think all DPCA members should be able to make an informed decision when voting for their board.

Athy

[pretty dobe]

Eve, Mimi told us at our club meeting last night that Roger was running. Good for him...He will be a great asset to the DPCA ...

Mimi Brown is also running for Vice Pres from the floor and she would be a great breath of fresh air for the DPCA. She and Jan work great together. For the first time I personally like some of the good people running for positions...

Judie

[Athy]

Mimi Brown is also running for Vice Pres from the floor and she would be a great breath of fresh air for the DPCA. She and Jan work great together. For the first time I personally like some of the good people running for positions...

Judie

I would love to see Mimi Brown's bio too!

[Kissntell]

Eve, when I worked for vets way back, often the cause of frequent heat cycles was cysts on the ovaries. Maybe you could get this checked out via an ultra sound? However, maybe you have something that's inherrited.

I have noticed a major issue with the weight gain on false pregnancy bitches.

What I have finally done is cut the meal portion to once a day. I have been giving a cup and a quarter of the pro plan chicken along with a good 1/3 canned.

The problem I have with this bitch is that she is not a good eater. Prior to this, I had to stuff her to keep her in shape for the show ring. But now for the first time, by limiting her meal to once a day, she has appetite. So she is finally self feeding!

Thus, I am thinking...do I need then to give her a half of cup of parsley since its once a day?

She never came into big milk. It was only apparent if I squeezed the nipples. But, even with small food portions, the weight was packing on. I finally have her weight down.

I knew that calories had to do with milk. Which is why I cut her feedings down. Right now, it sure is nice to watch her eat on her own. Prior to this, I was stuffing her. That then makes it very hard to send her with a handler should I desire. I really don't want anyone else stuffing her because it is an art and the person doing it can really mess up a dogs vocal cords if they are not careful.

I'm glad your husband is running for Treasurer. The DPCA needs fresh air.

This is a fairly young bitch, not yet two, and I am uncertain about feeding her less protien senior. I did notice that the fater she became the meaner she became! She was nuts for those "babies."

Your comments are most appreciated because if it wern't for my ability to perservere, most people would have quit on this bitch. She had become way too protective of the "babies" which became even her drag around leash.

The reproductive vet told me that 6 to 7 weeks of this was normal. Is this your finding?

[Kissntell]

I have been feeding the parsley now. It seems that she is better yet I still don't totally trust that we are through this.

I gave her 1/4 cup the first night. She ate it up.

The second night I gave her a 1/2 cup since I have her cut down to one feeding a day. She was hesitant to eat that much but she ate.

So the third night I tried again, but now I really pushed the 1/2 cup and ended up having to once again stuff her half of the meal.

So tomorrow night I will try the 1/4 cup again. I would love her to feed herself.

So it is difficult to get her to self feed with too much parsley. So back to the 1/4 cup I go for now.