Is Ratan Sharma an agent for Michael Liu?

[Elaine]

If you take a look at this thread about what happened to Piper and Rich, http://www.dogshownewsnetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=194&highlight=Polanco&page=4 you will see that they were sold by Jose Polanco through an agent named Rakesh "Roc" Vali (who represents himself as a vet) to Mr. Michael Liu in India. Look at post #15 on the thread to see the condition of yet another bitch named Karat, that Mr. Liu purchased. Karat was lucky to make her way back to the USA. Piper and Rich were not.

Reportedly Piper had her first litter for Mr Liu at 14-15 months... and then was sold on to another party, Mr. Kanishk Gupta d.b.a Ferric Kennel http://www.ferrickennel.com/index.php We fear that this Gupta Fellow will breed Piper until her uterus falls out (may they all rest in hell). We have no idea what happened to Rich (may Polanco rest in hell also).

Purportedly Mr Ratan Sharma is now acting as an agent for Mr. Liu. There are rumors that Mr. Sharma has approached breeders like Kelly and Linda Marquis. We will be speaking in detail to Kelly about what happened to Piper, but we also want all Doberman breeders to have a heads up about Mr. Liu and his track record BEFORE they sell a dog that could meet the tragic fate of Piper and Rich.

[doberdogsfd]

Thanks for the heads up Elaine.
As you know several people from all over the world have made substantial offers to purchase both Pagan and Tala. We have not accepted any of these offers. The boys are staying close to home.

Now, not all of these people are of questionable character, I am sure. That being said, with situations such as you have kept us informed about and others I have heard, it makes us a tad uncomfortable to sell out of country.
Unfortunately, the sins of the few have effected the many.

Cheryl

[Elaine]

We have been contacted by Mr. Liu, apparently in response to this thread. We are asking that he see to it that Piper and Rich are returned to the United States, to us. We will see that they are both placed in loving pet homes. Mr. Liu’s desire to win (and/or breed winning dogs) is the reason that Piper and Rich were sent to India. Mr. Liu alone is responsible for them being in India… where they are not valued. Neither was ever a breeding quality animal… we told that to Mr. Polanco all along.

Our view is that Mr Liu made no commitment to Piper or Rich at all… for him, life is trivial and expendable... it is only about winning…. so he had Rich and Piper sent to India on his whim, and when they did not suit his purposes, he simply dumped them. We do not know Rich’s fate (we can only hope and pray that he is still alive), but we are aware of Piper’s new home; I would not wish her life on my worst enemy.

Whether Mr. Liu currently owns Piper and Rich is irrelevant. He (and Polanco) are responsible for their being in India. Liu needs to do the honorable thing, buy them back if he has too, and send them back here to the USA immediately, to people who will see that they get loving life-long pet homes. We will take care of them when they arrive here... and we will find them pet homes. As for the money that Liu will be out… he can get it from Mr. Polanco.

[dobesign]

Mr. Liu, if you’re reading this, please do the right thing and send Rich and Piper back. At the end of the day, we are judged by how we treat the most vulnerable of god’s creatures. Piper and Rich deserve better lives that what they now have. They deserve to be loved and valued, send them back.

[doberdogsfd]

It would be the Honorable thing for Mr Lui and the people that Piper is now with to contact you and get the process started to bring these to dogs back home.

The person that actually owns Piper contacted me some weeks ago inquiring after the litter. He liked our webstie and went on to ask if we would be keeping any of our puppies from this breeding.
He had complimented us on our dogs and left the link for his website.
Need I tell you I nearly fell off the chair here in the office when I was looking at it and found Piper.
I immedialety got with Elaine and let her know who had emailed me.

Piper needs to come home as does Rich. We will all work together to get them placed in loving forever homes.
They are family and we will not let this go.
I ask Mr Lui and the man that contacted me to find it in themselves to do the honorable thing and reach out to us and let us bring these dogs home.

We are all breeders and dog people. We all realize you will be out some money.
Restore some of the Honor that Polanco has leeched from all whom have been involved with this situation.

Find Rich for us, let us have them both and help us see you all in a different light...if Honor matters at all.

Cheryl Burgess and Bob Salvino
~ Blackwood~

[Betty]

Mr. Liu, Nearly three years ago, when I was searching for a Trotyl daughter.. before Elaine and Arthur allowed Fein Cera to come and live with me.. I spoke with Jose Polanco about a Trotyl litter he was expecting. At that time, he spoke well of Piper and Rich.. he sent me pictures of them. It is difficult for me to think of them now.. especially after seeing the pictures of Karat. If it is in your power, please find a way to send Piper and Rich home as soon as possible so they can enjoy the rest of their lives. Thank you.

[Sheila]

Mr. Liu, as a privileged owner of a Trotyl daughter and now friend of the Greenwoods, I am asking you to do what is honourable and responsible and to find a way to return Piper and Rich to where they belong so they may live the rest of their lives in caring and loving homes. Thank you.
Sheila Summers
Ausleben reg. kennel

[Athy]

[QUOTE=Elaine;7772]Mr. Liu alone is responsible for them being in India…
[QUOTE]

Mr. Liu should step up to the plate and do the responsible thing - get those two dogs back to the US where they can be placed in homes where they will be valued.

Athy

[dobesign]

Piper and Rich would both have immediate homes in the southwest, if they can make it to the US. Please, oh please, let us get Piper and Rich back to where we can give them the life they so justly deserve. And if you find a way, then you would be responsible for providing that life to them through their forever homes. What adeed of honour that would be!

[Sonquest]

Mr Lui,
I am in high hopes that you will bring some honor back to your name by doing the proper thing for two innocent Dobermans, Piper and Rich. These two dogs do not deserve the hand that they have been dealt. Through no fault of their own, they have been passed around like used luggage instead of the real live, feeling creatures that they are.
Polanco was advised that these two dog were not of breeding quality and should have been placed in pet homes. By selling these same two dogs to India, you not only misrepresented the dogs but also misled the buyers which leads one to believe that either you have no conception of quality breeding animals or are just plain dishonest.
Please do whatever it takes to right this wrong.
Tina Nett

[Janice McGerr]

We have been contacted by Mr. Liu, apparently in response to this thread. We are asking that he see to it that Piper and Rich are returned to the United States, to us. We will see that they are both placed in loving pet homes. Mr. Liu’s desire to win (and/or breed winning dogs) is the reason that Piper and Rich were sent to India. Mr. Liu alone is responsible for them being in India… where they are not valued. Neither was ever a breeding quality animal… we told that to Mr. Polanco all along.

Our view is that Mr Liu made no commitment to Piper or Rich at all… for him, life is trivial and expendable... it is only about winning…. so he had Rich and Piper sent to India on his whim, and when they did not suit his purposes, he simply dumped them. We do not know Rich’s fate (we can only hope and pray that he is still alive), but we are aware of Piper’s new home; I would not wish her life on my worst enemy.

Whether Mr. Liu currently owns Piper and Rich is irrelevant. He (and Polanco) are responsible for their being in India. Liu needs to do the honorable thing, buy them back if he has too, and send them back here to the USA immediately, to people who will see that they get loving life-long pet homes. We will take care of them when they arrive here... and we will find them pet homes. As for the money that Liu will be out… he can get it from Mr. Polanco.

Mr Liu should do the right thing and send Piper and Rich back!!! It is not right to keep a dog you do not love!! Elaine will make sure they are well cared for and love, if Mr Liu is a honorable man he will do the right thing. Mr Polanco should not be breeding dogs or selling them until he learns the breed standard and learns how to know what is a good dog!! And gets a heart!! We as breeders love our dogs and there off spring!!! My self and Roger have to totally trust the person getting our babies (yea our babies), and there personal references, before we let lose of any baby! So Mr Liu do the right thing and send them both back!!

[andyhilt27]

I am going through a similar situation right now. Let me tell you Mr. Liu, it is shitty. Honor and integrity seem to have lost their value all around the world. I was told at one point, "Sure you can get the dog back for x amount."
Sorry but that seems like ransom to me.


So what is it going to take to bring Piper and Rich back?

[Elaine]

Our guess is that Mr. Liu wants money. Apparently he thinks there are a few more drops of bloodmoney to eek from Piper :mad:

Here is how this comes across to us: In our opinion Mr. Liu is the type of dog person reputable breeders always try to avoid. We believe that Liu's interest is in owning a dog that satisfies his ego. He apparently is not knowledgeable or skilled enough to breed good dogs on his own, so he casts about trying to purchase some "moment of glory" in the show ring. It seems to us that Liu cares nothing for the dogs themselves, all that seems to matter to him is what the dogs do for his ego. It would seem that not only can Mr. Liu not breed a good dog, but he can not even purchase one. Rather than selectively and wisely choosing a few (based on knowledge and experience), and making a committment to them, he simply uses agents to buy whatever some breeder is foolish enough to sell him. We hear that dogs run through his hands like water.

It is nearly impossible to get the truth here, in our experience, people like Mr. Liu are as evasive as hell. We have heard that his dogs live in a kennel down the road from him… and that the conditions are deplorable. We have heard that he bred Piper, did not like her or the litter, so he gave her to this guy Karnishk Gupta, who also bred her… or considered breeding her. Reportedly Piper had her first litter at about 14 months of age. She had no health testing of any kind, she wasn’t even a mature animal… and she was absolutely not breeding quality, and apparently that was Mr. Liu’s assessment of her when he first saw her. We have no idea what became of her litter… we are not even sure if she has had another. We have no idea if Rich is even still alive.

Apparently Mr. Liu has such little regard for life he buys what ever he can get his hands on, from breeders like Polanco (who also seem to care nothing for the quality of life of the dogs).

For all those outside the USA who approach us to purchase dogs, people like Mr. Liu are the reason we say, "No!" In our opinion, people like Mr. Liu do you all a huge disservice.

Piper and Rich are two and a half years old. We believe they have been living in abject hell since they arrived in India… we fear that Rich is no longer even alive.

In our opinion, Mr Liu is hiding behind dog agents and dealers. If so, that is nothing more then a thinly veiled scheme to avoid responsibility for the dogs he collects and then disposes of. Agents and dealers like Ratan Sharma and/or Mr. Roc Vali acquire dogs for re-sale. Vali would not have acquired Piper and Rich unless he had a client. We believe that the client was Mr. Liu. Given what we have seen and heard about Mr. Liu, we can not find one single thing about him that is worthy of respect.

Mr. Liu has one path back to honor here… and that is to send Piper and Rich back to the USA.

Liu (and his visions of dog show grandeur) are the reason Piper and Rich were sent to India in the first place. In the alternative, Polanco can get his jolly round butt over to India and bring Piper and Rich home (or otherwise not return).

[Elaine]

An update, Liu has had several communications with Arthur… apparently this thread has also prompted a response by Mr. Kanisk Gupta… who made some idiotic threat to Arthur and sent us these photos, I assume with the expectation that we would be impressed. We are not. (And as an aside, I would wish that Gupta could stand here in person to make threats. Arthur may not be Bob, but I guarantee that this Gupta guy would not be making threats in person.)

These photos were first sent to us about a year ago, at which time Piper was about 18 months old. You will notice from the photos that she appears to have nursed a litter. I also notice that the handler (presumably Mr. Gupta) is barefoot. With any luck there are dog feces and parasites in his area… which hopefully he will contract.

Gupta and Liu think that these photos are exemplary, we think they are an indication of the poor quality of their care. I note that they show a stressed (poorly handled) dog, who’s pasterns appear weak and who’s feet are clearly flat. I saw Piper several times when she was young… she had the lovely arched tight cat feet that her pedigree indicates she would have. Her nutrition must be truly awful for her feet and pasterns to look the way they do now. And look at her hocks. :eek:

But the overarching question is this… did a knowledgeable dog person really need to send this poor bitch all the way to India to realize that she is a pet who should never be bred?

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Piperx.jpg

In the photo below I see a light in her eye that was there when she was a tiny puppy, with the expectation that the world would be a kind and loving place for her. She needs to come home to the USA... to a home where she is valued and loved as a precious companion… not living in squalor in India, valued only as a uterus for a couple of carnival hucksters. Rich needs to come home too.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp21/logresfarm/Piper_1.jpg

[Elaine]

Been gone all day today… when I checked the inbox this afternoon there was an email from this sleaze Mr. Liu… essentially confirming that the rumors about him are accurate. Breeders should be warned to avoid creatures like Liu and this Gupta character. As far as we can tell, everything people say about them is true. I don’t know of a single person who would ever sell a good dog to either of them… not ever.

Untimely these kind of people are of no concern to us, they are like other forms of excrement and parasites, they exist all around and there is really nothing to do but warn others to avoid them. As for how they treat the dogs in their care… what goes around comes around, maybe not in this lifetime… but eventually this will all catch up to them.

[Elaine]

A friend sent this link... http://www.jatinkennel.com/rich1.htm to the people that have Rich... he is in India... many of the photos of him were taken here in the USA, at Polanco's place. The rolly-polly guy in the first photo is Jose Polanco, Jose's daughter is the handler in the second photo, and there is even a photo of Rich as a puppy that I took. It is Rich. We have all seen dogs in worse condition, though the bitch on the website has some pressure sores that don’t look too good. But at least he's alive. That's something to be thankful for.

For what it’s worth, I remember Polanco bringing Rich over to our farm to show him to us at about 12 weeks. Polanco was saying that Rich was “his Warkant” … that Rich was his special boy. Rich has his dad’s head and expression… I’d know it anywhere. He's got to be wondering what the hell happened :(

[Arthur]

http://www.jatinkennel.com/magic.htm

What happened to this poor bitch?